The Outlaws

[TributeShadow]

Hi!
I wonder if someone knows which guitar/guitars that were used by The Outlaws on recordings like "A Tribute To Buddy Holly" "Valley Of The Sioux" "Last Stage West" "Sioux Serenade" and "Fort Knox".

Regards,
Patrik

[neil2726]

A pic from 1961 shows an all Gretsch line up!

[dave robinson]

I Googled Mike Berry & The Outlaws and saw a picture of The Outlaws with a full Gibson line up too.

[Pol]

A pic from 1961 shows an all Gretsch line up!

If you`re ref. to the Youtube "Ambush" 1961 clip/picture on Youtube...the correct line up would rather be Gibson ES-175, Gibson EB2 or Epiphone Rivoli bass, Gibson ESTDC-335 w. Bigsby arm.

Cheers, Pol.

[dave robinson]

A pic from 1961 shows an all Gretsch line up!

If you`re ref. to the Youtube "Ambush" 1961 clip/picture on Youtube...the correct line up would rather be Gibson ES-175, Gibson EB2 or Epiphone Rivoli bass, Gibson ESTDC-335 w. Bigsby arm.

Cheers, Pol.

Cheers Per, I saw the 335 clearly with the Bigsby, but the other two guitars only showed the headstock and part of the neck, but recognised the parallel pearl fingerboard inserts on one and the clover leaf tuners on the bass, which of course were used on the EB2 and Epiphone Rivoli basses.

[Billyboygretsch]

This is the Gibson line up not sure what the plate is under the bridge area on the 335. The only Gretsch picture I can find is with Tony Sheridan. There is also a good picture with Alan Jones when he was on bass.

[RayL]

The 2013 Pipeline Convention DVD included a special feature, 'My First Guitars' with Billy Kuy (lead guitar, The Outlaws), Ted and John Barber (guitar and bass, The Scorpions) and Malcolm Lenny (lead guitar, The Packabeats). These guys from the great days of instrumental rock music gave me interviews in which they described the guitars that they were using in their early recordings.

I interviewed Billy Kuy in his studio (where he is still making music) and he told me that the guitar that he used for The Outlaws' album Dream Of The West was a Burns-Weil Super Streamilne RP2G, the 'Martian Cricket Bat'

Burns Weil RPG2.JPG

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The RP2G was made in 1959 by the partnership of Jim Burns and Henry Weil before Jim Burns set up his own company in late 1959. The 'RP' refers to Roy Plummer, a session guitarist of that time who presumably had some input on the design.

Billy recalled that The Outlaws were auditioned by Mike Berry in Billy's front room and Mike was 'very impressed' by the 'Martian Cricket Bat'. Now if Billy had it then (late 1960) and he was still using it for recording Dream Of the West (released December 1961), then it would have been in use for Mike's Tribute To Buddy Holly (Sept 61) as well as The Outlaws' singles Swingin' Low/Spring Is Near (March '61) and Valley Of The Sioux/Crazy Drums (Sept 61).

Later singles (Last Stage West/Ku-Pow, Feb '62 and Sioux Serenade/Fort Knox, Oct '62) came after Dream Of The West so I can't be certain if the MCB was used for those, but the next guitar that Billy mentioned in the interview was a Maton, which he bought for his time with The Innocents, after he had left The Outlaws.

It's not unknown for publicity pictures to show guitars that are just loaned for the photo session, so it's unwise to place too much faith in the accuracy of what you see in the picture. After all, if all the band's guitars are locked up in the group's van and you've come to the photo session by Underground, then if the photographer says "Hold this guitar that I borrowed from the music shop down the road and s-m-i-l-e!", that's what you do.
Ray

[dusty fretz]

I read that Billy Kuy interview in Pipeline and he was very disparaging about his early playing and recorded efforts, which was somewhat disappointing, as I thought both were very impressive back then and still do. Apparently he also hated the Burns-Weill and I can sympathise with this opinion to some extent, although it was okay for a UK-made solid electric of that time, i.e. better than nothing! Billy obviously made the best of a bad job and listening to those Outlaws' records also makes you realise just how good Joe Meek was in the studio, because the guitar sounds great, which it certainly didn't in 'real life'. Bass-heavy pickups and an all-wood bridge ensured very little top end response, but there's certainly no shortage of treble and twang on the Dream Of The West LP and those early singles - obviously a real credit to Joe's undoubted recording abilities.