'Live' recordings - where should the lead guitar be?

[RayL]

This is a question for those who enjoy the enhancement that stereo can give in separating instruments on the recording of a live show. It is about whether you listeners prefer instruments to be placed a) where they are on the stage b) lead guitar in the centre or c) do you prefer very little separation? The example that everyone will recognise is 'where should Hank be - in the centre or panned to the right?'

On the recent 'Final Reunion' DVD, Hank is panned camera right (his actual stage position) when Cliff is singing, but his sound image moves to the centre for the Shadows numbers. Brian and Mark are panned centre while Bruce is panned to the left at all times and Warren (though quite far back in the mix) is to the left (except for special effects such as the ships bell). Rolling behind them is a large amount of hall acoustic (augmented by digital reverb?) and Hank's echo returns are panned left and right which tend to fill out the sound stage. Nevertheless, the definable sounds are centre and left during the instrumental numbers. The logic of this is that as the 'lead', Hank should be in the centre and this works when he is in closeup but obviously not for other shots.

On a studio recording it is rare to have an 'unbalanced' sound. If the lead instrument is in the centre, then there are generally rhythm sounds both to the left and right to balance things up. However, as soon as there are pictures, the clashes start to creep in between what the eyes see and what the ears hear. The Final Tour DVD audio mix gets over this by having all the instruments pretty close to the centre - although the sound is cleaner, with less hall acoustic, only the audience reaction is panned wide.

So for those of you who listen to the stereo image while watching the pictures, what do you prefer? Lots of separation or very little? Hank panned centre or Hank panned to his stage position?

Ray L

[wstagner]

Being a big fan of the 2004 CD/DVD...except for the drums it sounds close to monophonic.
That is confirmed by the fact that I "toyed" with one of those vocal (centre channel) eliminators on the recording and it eliminated much of the sound except for the drum toms.

I find the 2009 DVD more stereophonic but perhaps that's due to the addition of Cliff on centre as you indicated. I've commented in another thread that I think the 2009 DVD lacks bass response compared to the 2004 recording, but is just my opine.

I do all the recording/mixing of our own band which qualifies me as our band "engineer". All this means is that it's up to me "where" I place things in the mix. I do that based upon where the players are on the "stage". Dead center is typically bass drum/bass guitar. Everything else is panned some variation of left/right.

Mixing/mastering is an art, not a science and therefore is subjective.
Like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get at it.

[stratmantd]

I have always subscribed to the opinion that the lead guitar should be suspended from a strap over the lead guitarist's shoulder.

Before huge PAs and grandiose stereo mixes a live performance would have the lead guitar sound coming from just behind where the guitarist was standing. This would be the first time that any of the fans would have heard any kind of stereo reproduction of the music.

IMHO, the mix of the stage sound should match that put out on the record. In most cases the lead would probably be panned to the centre because it is easier to hear when it is spacially in front of the listener. For some of the flamboyant panning effects it would be important to reproduce these as well as can be achieved.

As long as the sound is clear and each instrument discernable in the mix it shouldn't really matter.

[Bluesnote]

This reminds me of a terrible concert I went to in the nineties at the SECC Glasgow(small auditorium). Wishbone Ash were the band.
I never experienced a worse mix in my life. As most of you know the guitarists specialise with a twin lead in most of their solos.
The mixing desk was just behind us dead centre of the hall. They had the drummers volume way out in front drowning out everything else. The bass player would have been as well playing air guitar, his sound non-existant.
When the Guitarists did a twin lead, you could only hear one of them resulting in the solos sounded just plain stupid as they were intented to harmonise with each other. I dont know how the mixing muppet could'nt hear the problem he was causing. I was going to go up and tell him to get his act together but her indoors (not in this occasion) convinced me it was not a good idea
If he'd taken his headphones off he might have heard the problem or maybe not
Needless to say, I did'nt stay til the end as it was a total waste of time trying to figure out what they were playing.
So much for all the instruments coming through the same system. They'd have sounded much better the old way as the Shads and all of us in the old days played with just trying to balance the sound ourselves and with a bit of help from friends in the audience.
So I'd say to you that it would depend on where you stand to record your band to pick out the lead at the right volume
Hugh.