Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

[abstamaria]

Good heavens. I have been spelling it wrong for 49 years.

[abstamaria]

By the way, what electric guitar dis Bruce use for the piece?

[AlanMcKillop]

The mystery deepens, two of the articles refer to Cliff 'sitting in' on acoustic, so once again we have to decide whether it was factual or a publicity stunt. It could have been information fed to the press on the back of the photo which the record company knew was going to appear on the sheet music for QS or it was a sales pitch by naming Cliff (who already had achieved success) as a participant to boost sales. I don't know what to think.

[Arpeggio]

Hmmmmm. Interesting. It COULD have been to boost publicity. Cliff was very loyal to the Shadows and Norrie Paramor was also remarkably supportive. With long hindsight now we all know just how important "Apache" / "Quatermasster's Stores" was going to be for the Shadows. If the single had failed then the Shads' recording contract with Columbia would have been rescinded. So, mentioning that Cliff was involved would have given things a boost. OK - here's another theory. Cliff played the fabled drum on "Apache" - fact. Hmmmmmm (pondering again). Cliff is mentioned in the press as 'sitting in' on acoustic guitar. The photograph on the sheet music probably was from the "Quatermasster's Stores" session - and there is Cliff (with the J200) mic'd up. Now, I don't have Tony Hoffman's 'Backtrackin'' info on "Apache" to hand - but that took up less than one third of the session and required only a handful of takes. Ergo "....Stores" took well over two hours to finish off and I'm not sure about the number of takes. I am assuming that there would have been quite a few. OK - this is my final theory. Probably one or two takes (or maybe partial takes - & there would have probably been some BDs and FSs) MAY have been completed with Cliff on the acoustic. They were deemed to be unsatisfactory and were either unissued (& therefore may exist somewhere within the EMI vaults) or (also not impossible) were 'wiped'. Bruce's driving rhythm on the electric guitar was excellent and so Norrie chose whichever take it was as 'Best'. Now, we all know that Bruce wasn't always happy playing electric rhythm guitar on recordings (particularly in the early days). So, although Cliff's performance on "....Stores" (if he DID play on any run - throughs) wasn't good enough to pass Norrie's quality control. But....we can imagine Bruce hearing the wonderful sound of the J200 and so....when it came to "Apache"....he may have been going to use the electric guitar....instead...he plays the rhythm on the J200 - the result...MAGIC!!

Best wishes,

Rob

[AngeliqueNL]

what about if we ask the man himself? Don't you think he would be able to answer your question(s) Rob?

Regards
Angélique

[Arpeggio]

Of course Angel. Of course. But I don't have a 'direct line' to get in touch with Cliff to ask him in person. Perhaps you might be able to ask him on our behalf? Bearing in mind that it was nearly 50 years ago now and that all of the Shadows are certain that Sir Cliff didn't play on the released version of "Quatermasster's Stores". Any extra information would be most welcome & I'd be perfectly happy to be proved 'wrong' - not that I'm 100% certain that I'm 'right' either!!!

Best wishes,

Rob

[Tone]

Hi Rob

A fascinating thread but I doubt whether it will ever be conclusively established what happened nearly 50 years ago.

Forgive my ignorance but what are BDs and FSs? Broken drums and Fiesta Strat?

Cheers.

Tony

[AlanMcKillop]

At a guess 'breakdowns' and 'false starts'.

[Arpeggio]

Yes - Al's right. BD = Breakdown - the track has to be stopped at some point for whatever reason. FS = False Start - something goes wrong very close to the beginning of the track - usually within the first 10 seconds or so & recording is halted.

Rob

[Razzmataz]

Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story, journalists in those days were no different from today.
Paul