Food For Thought

[Paul Creasey]

Hmmmmmm, some interesting stuff in this thread!!
Difficult (impossible?) to give a definitive answer, as there are so many variables. For instance, it's not only about "standards" in playing, but also about "motivation" as well. The reasons for us doing this "Shads" thing are many and varied - from the "Bedroom Guitarist" to the "Full Time Professional". Not everyone wants (or needs) to be the best (however THAT is defined). This "be the best" thing seems to be a fad of the industrial age - perhaps promoted by those (employers, politicians, etc) most likely to benefit from the efforts of others and, frankly, not a concept that I've ever been comfortable with, personally.
Now - all that's NOT to say that I don't want to "do better today than I did yesterday", but for me the point is that the "yardstick" is a personal one. It's ME that I'm "competing" against, not (as "only a Drummer") Buddy Rich, Brian Bennett et al.
I listen to a lot of live music, of a variety of genres, and can't remember EVER coming away from a gig or concert and thinking "that Guitarist/Drummer/Singer wasn't very good!". Sure - there have been some that have been better than others, and there have been times that I've been totally unable to relate to a particular type of music (in my case, Opera is a good example!).
I have no interest in posting sound files, and (sorry, folks!!) hardly ever listen to those posted by others. I'm a Shadows fan, have everything they've ever recorded on CD, so pop a CD into the player when I need to top-up my "Twang" levels!
On the subject of "Confidence", much of what has already been written rings true. It DOES take a large measure of confidence to perform in public - at whatever level - and, in my own case, it's been a lifelong quest for increasing confidence in everything I do. I have JUST as much respect for the struggling Guitarist (or Drummer!) at a Shadows Guitar Club, as I do for The Shadows themselves in some massive Arena - and if that struggling Guitarist chooses to work for months (perhaps without any real signs of improvement) on a single tune, that's fine by me - we are, after all, doing this for FUN, aren't we? I DID like the Gary's comment about "it's the journey, not the destination" and it brought to mind a comment made on the "old" forum to the effect that "Music is an art form, not a competition".
Finally (honest!), on the subject of "criticism" - this is often destructive when presented in the wrong way - an example is "Strictly Come Dancing" etc, when some of the Judges (the "arrogant" ones?) concentrate only on negatives. The management technique in reviewing the performance of others at work is to ALWAYS start by highlighting positives before dealing with negatives.
Regards
Paul

[asimmd]

I really don't see where this thread is going.

I was semi-pro for over 6 years in the 60's with an up coming recording contract and an opportunity
to play the US Airforce bases in Germany.

It all went wrong when the vocalist got cold feet and decided he didn't want to go,he preferred
to stay at home in the luxury of a permanent job,where there were no risks.

I must say that the experience hurt a lot,(and still does) knowing that our agents thought us good enough to
do all these things yet because of a vocalist with no bottle,it was not to be.

There are no recording artists that I listen to,my attitude,rightly or wrongly is one of
"I could have done that",it's all about being in the right place at the right time,and of course knowing the right people.

Sorry if I seem cynical,perhaps that's because I am,but I am not nasty with it.

I am 62 now,and I would love someone to jam with but I live in a small village where nothing seems to happen,least
of all anyone playing guitar.
All the Shadows clubs were a long way away,and they don't exist anymore,Manchester was the nearest but
a long way from where I live.

Oh well,I'll shut up now,apologies for the rant.Been there done that worn the T shirt,etc.

Best to everyone

Alan

[Paul Creasey]

Hi Alan,
I'm not sure where this thread is going, either - but then again, does it have to go anywhere? It's an open discussion between folks who share a common interest, but perhaps are "coming at" that interest from many different standpoints.
I guess when you get to our age (I'm 65), to a certain extent it's inevitable to have "been there, done that, worn the T-shirt".
Like you (and I suspect many others) I was semi-pro in the '60's, and there was talk of a tour of the US Air Bases in Europe for our Band. I guess, though, that I was the equivalent of your Band's vocalist and - after a great deal of heartsearching - decided not to do-it. The usual reasons - luscious young Wife (she still is, nearly fifty years later!), mortgage, desire to have/raise a family etc etc!
However, where we differ is that I've not regretted that decision for one moment and I'm certainly not cynical about music (I reserve my cynicism for Politicians, Financial Advisers and the like). I travelled 160 miles yesterday to the York club - and had a WHALE of a time - and am about to load my Drumkit for a round-trip of 150 miles to rehearse with our Band in Sheffield tonight. I guess it's all about deciding where your priorities lay, and then "going for it"! This forum, and it's predecessors, were the key factor in bringing me back to actually playing the music I love - and for that I will be forever grateful.
The very best of good fortune in your search for someone to Jam with, even if it's only the "Jam Night" at the pub in the next village.
Best regards
Paul

[OLDEREK]

I really don't see where this thread is going.

Best to everyone

Alan

I maybe a moderator on here, but this thread was started from my own personal feelings, and is does not need to go anywhere, I am enjoying reading the responses and i'm sure others are too........One of the jobs for a moderator on any site is to encourage members to post , and to get readers to join us.........As you can see it's worked here

I like the words of Dave Robinson practise, practise, practise, I think he has hit the nail on the head.

I have no natural talent, what ever stage I'm at with my playing I've had to work really hard for, but what I do know is that when others have told me where I have been going wrong it has pushed me up to a standard I thought I would never reach in my life time..........Thats why I say good advice can make you think about your playing and help you..... ...............Keep em coming

[des mcneill]

Darn it all Paul,how did you read my mind ? I was about to post an almost identical letter even starting off with the same words! I would guess half or more of the people on this site have been through the same thing at the same time and had to make the same decisions. I had to stop playing for many years due to other pressures but now enjoy it even more than before,and you are right,travelling to the Shads clubs is well worthwhile,can give you a new lease of life.
Cheers,
Des.

[Paul Creasey]

Well, Des..............you know what they say about "Great Minds"!
Regards
Paul.

[MikeAB]

The early part of this thread is very interesting because it's always seemed to me that some excellent players can make Shads covers that do not sound at all good (and no one quite reasonably I think ever wants to say so), some players have a great sound but don't play so well (and are again instinctively and sensibly protected from over criticism), but whilst the two occasionally come together very spookily indeed HBM always seems to have that 'pixie dust' that only a very few can get - eg Colin P -J who after all is hardly an amateur. I'm a bedroom player 'for myself only' and like was once said of the great HBM I long ago decided where I want to be and have stayed there! I don't rate myself a real guitar player at all in fact - just knocking out the right notes of the easier Shads and Hank stuff is not a qualification for that claim, and I can hardly play chords at all (unless there's enough time to put the fingers down one at a time!) - but for posterity only, and whilst I still can, I have made videos/DVD's of myself playing lead to some 100 backing tracks so far, and most of the very few people allowed to suffer them say (I think honestly) that they are terrific. My Uncle even said quite seriously it's not too late to try and get these published and make a career (idiot). My Mother has played my DVD's 'in the other room' for background music and says they sound just like the Shads (mind you she would wouldn't she). My point though is that whilst I know my playing doesn't have the pixie dust for 99.9% of the time, and are really pretty amateurish if you know what you are listening to, the merely casual listener does not seem to notice this - I think it's why the Shads attract some criticism for simplicity, but to the expert and fan the HBM pixie dust makes us all wonder just how it is done - and with such apparent ease. Anyway, self awareness is all that is needed I think!

[asimmd]

Well my comments were not meant to be derogatory nor inflammatory.

If I upset anyone Derek,I apologise.

Guess I better shut up now.

Alan

[ecca]

I can drink 5 pints of Grolsch, eat 2 cheese and onion cobs a bag of scratchings
and a pork pie and then not play Apache very well on Tuesdays.

[Paul Creasey]

Hello again, Alan,
I don't think that your posts were either derogatory or inflammatory - and in fairness to Derek, I don't think that he was suggesting that they were. We all have our opinions, and threads like this (indeed Forums (Fora?) like this) are all about expressing them - so your apology is not necessary. Problems can (and have!) been caused when "opinions" are taken as "facts" so keep-on expressing you opinions! This internet "Forum" malarkey is - like live music - all about taking part!
................and Ecca, it sounds like I'm a bit like you - except that my preferred tipple is Grimbergen, and I play Drums to Apache not very well on a MONDAY night!
Regards
Paul.
PS better get off here, and get on the road to Sheffield for our Monday night "bash"!