Floating trem or not?

[hernando]

My strat copy has the trem panel flat with the body as this was how it arrived

Over the years I have encountered pretty much all the trem issues raised in this interesting thread, and have just recently *restored* an unbranded (Korean?) copy of a '57 strat, bought new in 1980.

My main problem with this particular guitar, was that it too arrived with the trem panel flat to the body and had 5 springs. Removal of 2 springs and adjusting the back lift per Fender's suggestions still would not make the trem float. It didn't bother me too much at the time, as I was using the guitar mainly for rhythm work and not playing anything that needed an "up" on the trem.

Getting rid of this guitar was never an option for sentimental reasons. For my restoration project I decided that the trem should at last be fully floating, and a post-mortem examination of the old trem parts revealed a number of issues that caused its inability to float.

The plate and block were a single diecast unit with a poorly defined bevel, and the 6 holes for the mounting screws had not been fully de-burred. The six mounting screws did not have any shank and had been binding in the plate holes. The 30 year old springs were knackered and could no longer pull the trem back into pitch.

All these problems were solved by fitting a replacement Wilkinson unit and adjusting per Fender's recommendations.
For the first time in over 30 years, the guitar is a complete joy to play.

Dave

[JimN]

My strat copy has the trem panel flat with the body as this was how it arrived

Over the years I have encountered pretty much all the trem issues raised in this interesting thread, and have just recently *restored* an unbranded (Korean?) copy of a '57 strat, bought new in 1980.
Dave

Clearly, an unbranded Korean Strat copy isn't going to play like an £1800 USA Custom Shop model, but I'm really glad to hear that a relatively inexpensive modification has cured the problem.

The reason why so many Strats are "set up" (if that's the right phrase) with the bridge flat to the body is that they have passed through the hands of people who don't know how they're supposed to be set up. Over-light strings don't help either, as they don't exert enough pull to balance the springs at an overall tension that will enable the guitar to hold its tuning properly. The laws of physics can't be ignored. 10s are (in my opinion) too light for a Stratocaster, but OK on a Telecaster.

JN

[hernando]

Jim, thanks for your comments.

My strat is currently strung with 10-46 Ernie Ball Regulars. Not perhaps the best choice for Shads Lead work, and I also agree that generally 10's are a bit on the light side on a strat. However, I have always used 10's on this guitar in order to do left hand vibrato and bends more easily. I have finally realized that this was perhaps more to compensate for the inadequate non-working trem. Now that it is fixed, I am keen to experiment with heavier strings and also get to grips with the nuances of using the trem rather than the left hand.

The old dog WILL learn new tricks

[abstamaria]

Trying to understand the effect of a flat trem setting on tone (which doesn't exist!), i found that the practice is more widespread than I imagined. Stevie Ray Vaughan for one is said to have employed that. He did use the trem and I think quite heavy strings. For tone alone, my thinking is that a flat trem setting would have no effect.

On a related point, did Hank pull up for the intros and outros of Apache? It seems a good technique, but 1960 might have been early days for it? Also, I seem to recall a remark By Gary Taylor in one of the excellent TVS videos that the trem bar wasn't used for those parts, but I then thought he was referring to the waggle at the ends. Looking at how Hank played in the very early years, not holding the trem bar, but letting it hang loose and grabbing it and quickly letting go, I can imagine he didn't pull up yet then But Hank also said he couldn't bend the strings on Cliff's new Strat and had to learn to use that trem bar.

Andy

[donna plasky]

Hi, Andy. I found a "restored" version of the Apache video from 1960 -- very clear and not scratchy-looking like the original. I cannot tell from watching whether Hank is using the trem on the intro...but maybe you or one of the others can tell. Here is the video.

Kind regards,
Donna

PS: I think this might be proof that neither Keith Richards nor Eric Clapton invented the "cigarette holder" on the guitar neck.

[ecca]

To have bent the note a whole tone from a D note to an E note with his finger at the third fret of the second string would have broke his finger with the string gauges then in use.
He used his trem.

[keithmantle]

Hi, Andy. I found a "restored" version of the Apache video from 1960 -- very clear and not scratchy-looking like the original. I cannot tell from watching whether Hank is using the trem on the intro...but maybe you or one of the others can tell. Here is the video.

Kind regards,
Donna

PS: I think this might be proof that neither Keith Richards nor Eric Clapton invented the "cigarette holder" on the guitar neck.

Hi Donna , they were miming to the original recording so string bending on the intro was absent plus a load of other left hand notes !!

[geoff1711]

Jim

I think whether the trem floats or not is down to personal choice as is string guage or height, or pickup choice, to say that if a trem doesn't float it's not set up properly is maybe similar to saying pickup position 2 and 4 is wrong because Leo's first Strats only had 3 way switches.

For me it's bend up and trem down if I can set up a guitar that way, clearly with a Bigsby that's not easy & on a Burns it looks wrong, but the tuning stability you get from setting up the Strat trem so that it lies flat is why so many do it that way.

However, there is the question that some say you don't get the slight reverb effect from the trem springs on hard tail, but Clapton and Knopfler hard block their trems so they go neither up nor down but leave the springs in because they believe they add to the tone they want.

See you Saturday?

Geoff

[davec]

If you look at the original patent application 2,741,146 ( from 1954):

http://www.google.com/patents/US2741146 ... &q&f=false

then the text does not make it clear. It merely specifies that the player will be able to "oscillate" the arm up and down, but doesn't specify the resting position.

However the pictures (Figs. 2 and 4) definitely show a gap between the back edge of the plate and the top of the guitar. Obviously, Leo designed the unit to be fully floating. Whether you choose to use it that way is entirely up to you .

Regards
DaveC

[JimN]

See you Saturday?
Geoff

Certainly will, Geoff!

Will you be there on Friday?

JN