That Early Shadows Sound

[d jones]

Hi George many thanks for clearing that one up.

Dave

[Picker]

Hi Patrik about the Gretsch thing i could be wrong but i'am not aware Hank has recorded with a Gretsch. Having said that on the dreaded ebay one seller has listed a Gretsch country genleman and states as used by Hank Marvin on those early recordings.
Could just be a selling ploy!!!
I would have thought Ray L, Rob B or Jim N will know the answer to this one.

Dave

The Gretsch that is for sale on Ebay is from "Music Incorporated" the return of Music Ground that went bust !! they are even still using the old sales quotation
"The Supreme Court of Rock n Roll" It is a single cutaway model on Ebay, I always thought that it was the double cutaway model that hank used ???
And Ecca yes you are right I have listened to the track "True love will come to you" I see exactly what you mean. Brilliant track love Hanks solo, and Cliff
is singing I would say at his very best on this track. Now that is "THE EARLY SOUND"
Rob

[JimN]

Hank's Gretsch 6122 Country Gentleman was indeed a single-cutaway model. He bought it in 1960 (that can easily be deduced from other evidence). The double-cut "George Harrison" model(s) wasn't/weren't introduced until at least 1961.

The guitar for sale on eBay is NOT the same as Hank's.

It is a 6122 "Country Classic 1958", which is a reissue of the very first (1958) model: deeper body, gold-plated hardware except for the bridge and Bigsby, and a proper nut and no "zero fret".

Chet had one just like that - it was designed for him, but he later specified a shallower body, and Gretsch also equipped the updated 1959/1960 model with the zero fret. He tended to stick with the updated model.

Hank's also had the Chet-specified thinner body, a zero fret and the later Gretsch-specific "V cutout" Bigsby.

JN

[George Geddes]

So the double cutaway which appears in some phots is Bruce's?

George

[dave robinson]

So the double cutaway which appears in some phots is Bruce's?

George

George, could you define 'some photos' please?

[JimN]

So the double cutaway which appears in some phots is Bruce's?

George

I don't think I've ever seen a Shadows picture with a double-cutaway Gretsch in it. Bruce's "Summer Holiday" Gretsch was also a single-cut model - the 6120, bought, according to Bruce, because of the Eddie Cochran associations. That too was bought during 1960. If I recall correctly, it was in use on a TV broadcast on 31st December 1960.

JN

[Martin Page]

I've not seen any Shadows' photos of double-cutaway Gretsches...

Martin.

[George Geddes]

Profuse apologies... I was thinking of the 1962 Paris photos someone posted here, which had a Gretsch behind Hank, which I was sure was a double cutaway. It's not.

(pops on sackcloth, sprinkles ashes, and takes a bite of humble pie...)

George

[JimN]

Profuse apologies... I was thinking of the 1962 Paris photos someone posted here, which had a Gretsch behind Hank, which I was sure was a double cutaway. It's not.
(pops on sackcloth, sprinkles ashes, and takes a bite of humble pie...)
George

Don't worry about it, George.

We all make mistakes.

[almano]

To add further into the equation of that very early Shad’s sound, I’ve just been listening to the EMI CD compilation disc of “The Shadows” and the “Out of the Shadows” recordings – and the change in ‘tone’ or ‘voicing’ of the guitars and drums is very noticeable when the CD changes from one LP to the other.

Now, I appreciate we have a different drummer (Brian) and bass player, for the most part (Licorice) on ‘Out of the Shadows’ but the indefinable “edge” to the recorded sound has disappeared.

For some reason there’s a more evocative and distinctive sound of the early sixties in here with “The Shadows” recording (at least for me there is!) – so, it’s got me to thinking more about what had actually happened in that year between ’61 and ’62 which has introduced a very noticeable change in the recorded sound.

Hank and Bruce’s sounds and playing styles haven’t changed themselves, and I don’t think Brian and Licorice would have added too much difference to the Shad’s sound to make that much of a change – besides, Jet was actually featured on some of those ‘Out of the Shadows’ tracks anyway – so, what did make the difference?

It surely has to resolve down to the recording methods of the day.

I know from personal experience the differences the bloke on the mixing desk can make to the final sound – it can change the end sound from “wow – just listen to that” to “yuck – that sounds horrible!” It’s easily done – so is it most likely that the later recording engineers set their parameters to give a sort of “universally acceptable sound” rather than the enthusiastic engineer tweaking things to whatever sounded good to him?

I mean, you just have to listen to those tracks Joe Meek produced in the sixties – even from jazz man Chris Barber - to see what I mean. It’s this more or less this maverick approach by the man at the desk, at the time, which can lead to some highly distinctive and memorable recordings. The engineer for “The Shadows” certainly captured an aural feel of the time superbly. Whoever it was (someone here will definitely know) was a bloke with true feeling for the time and place itself – although whether he was aware of it then is presumably unknown – but he did the job magnificently!

So, what do you think – could it really be so?

Cheers,

Alan.