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Assuming that BBC4 are now gearing up for Top of the Pops 1979, it can't be long now until we see the Shads and their TOTP appearances for Don't Cry For Me Argentina and Cavatina. Whilst I realise that the BBC are now reluctant to broadcast editions that are presented by Jimmy Savile and DL-T, wouldn't it be better to just edit these presenters out of the programmes in question rather than pulling them from the schedule all together?

I note that, apparently, the current Christmas Number One has sold about 149,000 copies. This just shows how meaningless today's singles charts are as this number of sales probably wouldn't have even got you in the top 50 in 1979. Having said that, does anyone know how many copies the aforementioned Shads classics sold...?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

drakula63 wrote:Assuming that BBC4 are now gearing up for Top of the Pops 1979, it can't be long now until we see the Shads and their TOTP appearances for Don't Cry For Me Argentina and Cavatina. Whilst I realise that the BBC are now reluctant to broadcast editions that are presented by Jimmy Savile and DL-T, wouldn't it be better to just edit these presenters out of the programmes in question rather than pulling them from the schedule all together?

Dave Lee Travis is facing charges that have not been tested in a court of law and he has pleaded not guilty. He must be presumed innocent unless found guilty. It would be inappropriate to edit in a way that assumed a guilty verdict; to be known to be doing so while the case was active could amount to contempt of court.

As to Jimmy Savile, the work involved in editing a programme to remove his links, and then finding other material to bulk it out to fill its time slot, would cost people's time and facilities. That would be more expensive than simply not running the programme. You'd have to ask how good a use of your Licence Fee such editing was.

drakula63 wrote:I note that, apparently, the current Christmas Number One has sold about 149,000 copies. This just shows how meaningless today's singles charts are as this number of sales probably wouldn't have even got you in the top 50 in 1979. Having said that, does anyone know how many copies the aforementioned Shads classics sold...?

I have no idea how many copies Cavatina or Argentina sold, but of course chart position reflects rate of sale relative to other records at the time, not total volume over a period.

For example, one bit of anecdotal research tells me that George Michael's 1984 single Last Christmas sold half a million copies in the first week of release but reached only number two because Band Aid was selling even faster. If Band Aid hadn't been around, it would have been number one.

Another piece says The Beatles' 1963 single She Loves You was on the charts for 29 weeks and sold 1.89 million copies. On average that would be about 65,000 copies in each of those weeks - although obviously the chart-topping weeks would reflect higher figures. Nevertheless, you could guess that 100,000 copies a week would have meant a healthy chart position in those days.

In that context, sales today of 149,000 in one week would be stunning. That figure spread over 4 weeks would still be pretty good.

Don't know if any of that helps!

Iain

In that case I can assume that any editions fronted by DLT will not be removed from the schedule. I have noticed that the later showings of TOTP are often ten minutes longer than the 30 minute version shown earlier in the evening, which suggests to me that some editing is undertaken for reasons that are not clear to me. It wouldn't take long to edit out any shots/links featuring Jimmy Savile and surely it would be better to show every edition of what is a culturally interesting and important show rather than miss out what could be crucial editions for the sake of a couple of minutes of screen time. Of course someone has to do this work but that's what editors are paid to do. BBC4 seems committed to showing these programmes, which is good, so hopefully we'll get as complete a run as is possible.

During this years run of 1978 editions of TOTP, I cant recall seeing Savile or Travis on the presenting team
as Noel Edmonds ,Peter Powell, Kid Jensen were the pretty faces back then!!!
Assume full re runs of 1979 therefore wont be affected as to Shadows appearances in that year.

Mike

Contrary to good old British Law, it seems that many of the celebs who are awaiting trial have been removed from the face of the earth despite not having been found guilty. I note that Rolf Harris no longer presents his Animal Clinic series on Channel 5 and has been replaced by Ben Fogle. I was a little surprised to hear Gary Glitter's "Leader Of The Gang" being used on Sound Of the 70's albeit in instrumental form.

I suppose we will not be seeing Pop Go The Sixties again which fetured The Shadows and many other fine acts from the sixties as that was presented by Jimmy Savile

Who knows what will happen. It's easy to make a quiet schedule alteration. Meanwhile one celebrity has asked for his programmes to be rested until the dust settles. There's no law about it. My point was only that it's risky to draw attention to any such avoiding activity. I'd expect the BBC to say nothing.

I notice that the first of the 1979 editions will be shown this coming Thursday and is the one from 4th January. I shall be tuning in expectantly! Did anyone see the two TOTP:1979 documentaries (well one doco, one compo) that were shown the other night on BBC4? A couple of shots of the Shadows here and there, so I am filled with optimism and hope! What a fantastic year it was.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, by the way!

In technical terms, the 1970s used expensive 2" video tape which was re-used (as complete spools) once electronic editing replaced splicing. (Apart, that is, from the notorious Memorex stock which started to shed its oxide after a short time, leaving the tapes unplayable). The upshot is that only certain edited master tapes have survived from the early/mid 1970s.

However, a new technology was coming in at the end of the 1970s. C-format using 1" video tape was higher quality than 2" and the tapes were cheaper. Re-use of tapes for financial reasons was no longer a priority.

It is possible, therefore, that in addition to the edited master for an edition of TOTP, there might also be the original show tapes (main cut plus isos). That means that instead of having to, say, hack a Jimmy Savile intro from the beginning of a song, the song can be re-edited for a present-day program without Savile, but with the opening intact.

It all depends on what has been archived from that time.
Ray

Yeah, it's amazing what can be done these days with even a cheap home computer editing system. I actually have a very good friend who is a BBC editor and I know they can work miracles!!! I have seen programmes here and there where the legitimate editing is awful, so a bit of 'tidying up' here and there on these TOTP shows would not necessarily have to be that noticeable. One song could indeed simply fade into another. I'll volunteer to do all the editing for free if it means that they don't miss out any of shows! I'm sure that my HND Media Production will come in handy one day...