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Hi, all. Last night, I was playing the Cliff/Shads EP "Dream" and it felt as though I was hearing it for the first time. I hadn't played this CD in a while, and I was more of a Cliff fan back when I'd last played it, and I paid attention only to the vocals. Now I'm more of a Shadows fan (though still like Sir Cliff) so I was listening closely to the music, not the vocals. I was wondering if you knew what kind of guitars Hank and Bruce used for this song -- the usual Strats or could they have used Gretch guitars like Chet Atkins and Merle Travis? Also, is there another word for "double bass"? Below is a description of what is in Victor Rust's book, and I don't understand what he is saying about Jet's part in the song.

"...there is a late night swing club feel about the performance of I'll See You in My Dreams, with Jet Harris playing a double-bass rather than an electric equivalent and Tony Meehan playing his drums with brushes, while both Hank Marvin and Bruce Welch play rhythm chords."

Has anyone ever seen them play this song? I was wondering if Hank was finger-picking, or using a plectrum.

PS: Doesn't it look funny to see a photo with Cliff sitting behind the drums? I know it's just a photo, but still...

Thank you, and kind regards,
Donna

The double-bass is also known as the contrabass or the bass-viol.

Jet Harris, after initially stating that Hank never used a Gretsch in the studio, recalled that Hank did play his Gretsch 6122 Country Gentleman for the themed tracks on the "Dream" EP. As far as I can tell, Bruce is playing an acoustic guitar throughout all four recordings on that disc. Hank is certainly playing with a plectrum and I don't think you could ever get that sound from a solid guitar with single-coil pickups.

JN

The double bass is further known as the string bass or the upright bass.

Jet and Licorice both played the instrument. Here's Licorice on double bass and Brian on drums, backing Tony Sheridan on the ABC TV "Oh Boy" show back in their pre-Shads days.

DearJimN and Iain: Thank you both very much for the information. Oh of course, now I get it...an upright bass is a double bass. And I looked up a photo of the Gretch Country Gentleman guitar. That's what I was imagining, I just couldn't remember if it was called a 5122 or a 6122, but I see it's a G6122.

The video of Tony Sheridan with Licorice and Brian is great. Thank you so much. I've been watching a lot of the "Oh Boy" videos on YouTube, but in many of them I couldn't recognise the people, so thank you for giving me this specific video. I'm already crazy about Cliff and all the Shadows, but somebody stop me...now I'm developing a crush on Marty Wilde, and Tommy Steele's probably next.

I did find a cool website while I was websurfing. Ever hear of "The Edwardian Teddy Boy" website? http://www.edwardianteddyboy.com/index.htm

Biographies and photos everywhere, like these:





Thank you again. I really appreciate your help.

Kind regards,
Donna

Full marks for crediting ABC TV, Iain.

Too many people credit ATV for "Oh Boy!".

Jim,

Whilst it is quite likely that Hank used his Gretsch for the Dream tracks, there is plenty of recorded evidence that you can get a full jazz tone from a solid guitar with single coils. There are many clips on YouTube, including Joe Pass using a Jaguar, Canadian jazz player Ed Bickert with a Telecaster etc

Even I've played jazz with a Squier Strat with heavy strings a few years ago- and it was FIESTA RED too! It was all I had when I sat in and played with some local veteran jazz players, and they never told me to bugger off because I wasn't playing a jazz type Gibson archtop! I was just pleased that I could keep up, take solos and comp to their standards (and I was sweating a lot!), regardless of the cheap 'inappropriate' instrument I was using...

JimN wrote:The double-bass is also known as the contrabass or the bass-viol.

Jet Harris, after initially stating that Hank never used a Gretsch in the studio, recalled that Hank did play his Gretsch 6122 Country Gentleman for the themed tracks on the "Dream" EP. As far as I can tell, Bruce is playing an acoustic guitar throughout all four recordings on that disc. Hank is certainly playing with a plectrum and I don't think you could ever get that sound from a solid guitar with single-coil pickups.

JN

Hank said in different interviews that he played the Gretsch to record Nivram and A girl like you, if he also played it for "See you in my dreams", he forgot it !

BTW, a double bass is a contrebasse in french, and there is no other name, which is far more simple !

Didier

I can understand your confusion Donna. I lived in Canada for 7½ years and folks there never seemed to call it a double bass - it was always a string bass on an upright bass.

Martin.

The term "string bass" was coined the jazz world. It arose in the first quarter of the twentieth century as more jazz bands, moving indoors from the street, were able to switch to the more subtle sound of the double-bass from the less refined but louder tuba (the only sort of bass which could be played in a marching or other street band).

With the advent of electrical recording, and eventually of amplification, "brass bass" could give way to "string bass".

JN

cockroach wrote:Whilst it is quite likely that Hank used his Gretsch for the Dream tracks, there is plenty of recorded evidence that you can get a full jazz tone from a solid guitar with single coils. There are many clips on YouTube, including Joe Pass using a Jaguar, Canadian jazz player Ed Bickert with a Telecaster etc

Even I've played jazz with a Squier Strat with heavy strings a few years ago- and it was FIESTA RED too! It was all I had when I sat in and played with some local veteran jazz players, and they never told me to bugger off because I wasn't playing a jazz type Gibson archtop! I was just pleased that I could keep up, take solos and comp to their standards (and I was sweating a lot!), regardless of the cheap 'inappropriate' instrument I was using...

Tell me about it - I've been trying that trick for 40+ years, John.

Certainly, players like Ed Bickert and (of course) Les Paul have long played solid guitars for jazz. But Les's tone - unique as it was - never sounded like the archetypal electric guitar jazz tone and Ed's Telecaster has long been fitted with a Gibson humbucking pickup in the neck position (he never uses the bridge pickup).

I am well aware that Joe Pass used a Fender Jaguar when he was at Synanon (it was what was available to him, and not a choice he made) but isn't it significant that he hasn't used one since? He will forever be associated with the ES175.

Talking of that Gibson archtop electric, all I can say is that it gives instant bebop jazz sound without any need for tricks like rolling off the guitar's tone control. Simply removing the high end is not the sum total of the jazz guitar sound of a Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel or Louis Stewart. It comes from the guitar and you cannot inject what is not there to start with. Simply plug the 175 into an appropriate amp (eg, a Deluxe Reverb with the bass and treble controls set at zero) and you have the jazz sound immediately. It's like plugging a Telecaster into a Twin and getting the James Burton sound without effort. Or like plugging a Strat into an echo machine and an AC30 and sounding like someone else. Or even like plugging a Les Paul (neck-pickup selected) into a Marshall for a blues sound.

Yes, a versatile electric like a Stratocaster, a Les Paul or a 335 can get a lot of different sounds and be a jack of all trades. But you still don't see many jazz players using Fenders or many country players using an L5.

JN