Mountains Of The Moon and Crockett's Theme live

[iefje]

The Shadows played "Mountains Of The Moon" live during their 1989 and 1990 tours (as well as the later tours of 2004 and 2005) and "Crockett's Theme" during their 1990 tour. I have heard some audience recordings of these tracks, made during the 1989 and 1990 tours and noticed that the accompaniment of both tracks is very similar to the studio versions. Could it be that they were using backing tracks for these tunes?

[bgohara]

I seem to remember Mark Griffiths playing keyboards on Mountains of the Moon in 1990 when I saw them (as well as Cliff Hall) but I'd say there was definitely some use of backing for added instrumentation. Look at Brian B on the final tour DVD - he is not playing all the rhymthic drums and percussion you can hear imho. Also, there is a point at which Bruce stops strumming and the rhythm guitar sound continues (though this could have been a brief patch up job in post production). Just my opinion of course, I could well be wrong.

[iefje]

I have seen one show during the 2004 tour and one during the 2005 tour. On these occasions, the sound was somewhat different from the studio version and the track was definitely played live. On the DVD "The Final Tour", you can indeed see Bruce stop playing for a few seconds, so that gap must have been filled up, using a part from earlier or later in the performance.

[MartcasterJunior]

Brian wore headphones for MoTM in both 1990 and 2004, which makes me think there was definitely some kind of backing used. The 1990 version sounded much closer to the record, and I seem to remember Brian playing drums with soft mallets which didn't really match the sound of the drum track that you could hear. In 2004 (as evidenced on the Final Tour recording) the opening is straight from the record, but you can hear the live drums and rhythm guitar much more clearly than I remember doing in 1990, so I reckon there was a backing track of some sort used, but it was much more stripped down than the original live version.

Edited to add: Despite being convinced that they were using a backing track on both tours, I don't say that as thought it's a bad thing. Bands have been doing that for decades and I'd far rather hear a "semi"-live version of a tune which does it justice rather than a version where the lack of additional elements make it sound bare.

Matt.

[dave robinson]

I was told by Mark Griffiths that in 1990 he mimed the keyboard part on the tour and felt a bit of a berk. He told me that he was not at all comfortable doing it. The soft mallets used by Brian were to minimise the sound, as a track was used and the performance was indeed half live. Same thing for the 2004/5 tour, but slightly amended.

[MikeAB]

Cliff Hall rather gave the game away on MOTM 2004. The video editor should have stayed away from him at the beginning?

[iefje]

Edited to add: Despite being convinced that they were using a backing track on both tours, I don't say that as thought it's a bad thing. Bands have been doing that for decades and I'd far rather hear a "semi"-live version of a tune which does it justice rather than a version where the lack of additional elements make it sound bare.
Matt.

That's right. The Who used synthesizer backing tracks for "Baby O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" as early as 1971. Later on, they also used one for playing the "Quadrophenia" double album live in 1973, which didn't go very well at the time and after that, also for "Who Are You" and "Eminence Front". The interesting thing is, even though they have had a keyboard player in their line-up since May 1979, the backing tracks for these tracks are still being used for live performances, with the exception of the double album "Quadrophenia".

[MeBHank]

Funnily enough The Shadowers have also played both of these tracks live. We used click tracks, which mostly just provide extra keyboards. You'd need at least two keyboard players to do it all entirely live. It's all about the final result. There doesn't need to be a taboo abut using tracks. Miming is a whole different ball game; it's not hard to find a way for every member of the band to play live while the click track augments what you're all doing.

If creating your own tracks, though, the important part, IMO, is that the tracks you use are your own creation. We opened our sets at Shadowmanias 2010 and 2012 with MOTM and people accused us of using the intro from The Shadows' original recording! It was, however, the result of days of painstaking work done by Matthew Green and myself to replicate the record with the computer sounds at our disposal. That said, we could only approximate due to not being able to use the same equipment as was used on the record, and there are definite differences if you compare the two tracks. Only the intro is tracked, though, and once the band comes in the performance is entirely live.

The live treatment of Crockett's Theme is quite different to MOTM, even if it is only due to the programmed, rhythmic bass synth running through the entirety of the track. That certainly can't be done live, and Dave, our drummer, wears headphones. There's plenty of keyboard stuff going on which can't be done by one chap. MOTM can potentially be carried by the band and still sound full without a click track, whereas Crockett's Theme certainly can't.

As an aside: I've even been accused of dubbing the record of Wonderful Land over the relevant section of my 'Shadowing Hank' promotional video because the echo is apparently too perfect (shows how good their ear is; it's a MagicStomp!). Some people are determined to indulge in conspiracy and not give due credit to those who put in hard work and manage to get good results.

J

[Didier]

[quote="MartcasterJunior"Bands have been doing that for decades and I'd far rather hear a "semi"-live version of a tune which does it justice rather than a version where the lack of additional elements make it sound bare.[/quote]
Jean-Michel Jarre has been doing this for years.

Didier

[iefje]

[quote="MartcasterJunior"Bands have been doing that for decades and I'd far rather hear a "semi"-live version of a tune which does it justice rather than a version where the lack of additional elements make it sound bare.

Jean-Michel Jarre has been doing this for years.

Didier[/quote]

Coincidentally, I have been watching several of Jarre's shows from DVD recently and noticed this too. It's probably the rhythm tracks that have been pre-programmed and to which Jarre, as well as other keyboardists as Francis Rimbert, Dominique Perrier and Claude Samard play live to. Earlier concerts of Jarre also featured actual drummers and bass guitarists in the live line-up, for instance during the concerts in China in early October 1981, the concerts in Houston and Lyon in April and October 1986 and the concerts in London in September 1988.