Longest serving Bass Player

[drakula63]

This leads me to ask another (related) question; purely out of my own ignorance,

Is it really true to say that the Shadows 'split up' in 1968?

Isn't it more accurate to say that they 'took a short rest' after Bruce left to maybe decide what to do next?

It seems to me that they then recruited Dr Hawkshaw into the band to 'replace' Mr Welch and carried on for a year or so in this form. There's an edition of the Cliff Richard BBC TV show from, I think, January 1970, where he quite happily introduces them as if they've never been away.

So, to my mind, the band didn't really split up until 1970 and the formation of MWF.

For this reason, I would say that John Rostill was there from 1963 to either late 1969 or very early 1970.

Just my opinion and the way I see it.

[drakula63]

Wasn't Jet Harris already in the band in November 1958? He appeared on a couple of recordings by Cliff Richard & The Drifters, recorded in November of that year. John Rostill already recorded with Cliff Richard & The Shadows on the 23rd of November 1963 on the tracks "I'm The Lonely One" and "Watch What You Do With My Baby" and with The Shadows on the 27th on "Razzmataz". I forgot to mention that aside from the 1986 Spring tour, Mark Griffiths also played with The Shadows during their 1987 Spring tour down under. Then later in the year, Alan Jones again took over for the fifteen new tracks on the album "Simply...Shadows" and the 1987 Autumn tour. In April 1988, he suffered a car accident, but managed to record for the last time with The Shadows in early 1989 on the "Steppin' To The Shadows" album. There is a picture of Hank with Cliff Hall and Alan Jones in the background, which was I think taken after Alan's accident, so I assume he must have played a few live dates in 1989, but it was probably too much and Mark Griffiths took over from Alan.

November 23rd, 1963, eh?

What a momentous day. The world was reeling from the assassination of JFK and Doctor Who aired for the first time on BBC1. I can well imagine that there must have been an 'interesting' atmosphere in the studio that day.

Re Alan Jones and Mark Griffiths - I had assumed that Mark only deputised for Alan during Alan's time out as bass player on the musical 'Time'. For this reason, and also taking into account his absence from the Euro spring tour of 1980, I'd say that Mr Jones had a more or less unbroken run as Shadows bass player between 1977 - 1987.

P.S. I've got the 1989 tour programme upstairs somewhere and I'm sure there is no indication that Alan took part in this tour...

[George Geddes]

Regarding Chris's comment on the Shadows split: when MWF toured Europe in 1971, they were billed as 'The Shadows, featuring Marvin, Welch and Farrar'. BB was on drums, Dave R on bass.

George

[Iain Purdon]

Is it really true to say that the Shadows 'split up' in 1968?

Yes, to quote Mike Read's book The Story of the Shadows:

"... Bruce's suggestion that they should do the Palladium season with Cliff and then call it a day seemed to meet with approval all round. So on 19th December 1968, the line-up of Hank Marvin, Bruce Welch, Brian Bennett and John Rostill played together for the very last time on the stage at the London Palladium behind the guy who they'd first met in a Soho tailor's in 1958 being measured for a lurid pink jacket..."

The subsequent work with Alan Hawkshaw was to honour a booking they still had. They could have cancelled but decided to do it. They were quoted later as only having done it for the money, or in Japan (as Hank put it) for the yen. This marked the start of the "less structured" period I mentioned earlier.

I had assumed that Mark only deputised for Alan during Alan's time out as bass player on the musical 'Time'...

Close, but not quite, I think. Being a freelance musician Alan would take the work he was offered, then honour the commitment. If "Time" was already in his diary then he would simply have to decline any later offer from the Shadows that clashed with it. Mark accepted the gig but was not deputising: you can't deputise unless covering for the person who should be there. That said, the Shadows have been pretty loyal to their freelance players, but none of them had any prior right to the work.

[drakula63]

Interestingly, in Bruce Welch's autobiography, published in 1989, he puts it slightly differently;

"Now was the time to get out... "

"...and I decided that at the end of that show, in December, I would leave the group...."

"On Saturday, 14 December 1968 I made my final appearance on stage with the Shadows. It was an emotional farewell...

"Hank presented me with an engraved clock in appreciation of my services."

(Page 179)


I have not copied every single word from the two or three paragraphs in question, but from this it undeniably 'sounds' like someone leaving a band and not the band itself splitting up.

The point really is that anyone using Bruce's book as their reference would, from these passages, conclude that the band had continued without him. Which, albeit for a break (up?!) of a few months, they did.

[Uncle Fiesta]

November 23rd, 1963, eh?

What a momentous day. The world was reeling from the assassination of JFK and Doctor Who aired for the first time on BBC1 ...

You missed out the release of the second Beatles album.

[Iain Purdon]

anyone using Bruce's book as their reference would, from these passages, conclude that the band had continued without him

If you look at that book in isolation, you certainly could conclude that the band had gone on. However, it's a book about Bruce Welch's life and takes his perspective. If you talk to Hank Marvin and Brian Bennett, as Mike Read did, it becomes very clear that The Shadows as a full-time enterprise did stop at that point and that anything done afterwards was a gig, not part of a continuing commitment.

[JimN]

November 23rd, 1963, eh?

What a momentous day. The world was reeling from the assassination of JFK and Doctor Who aired for the first time on BBC1 ...

You missed out the release of the second Beatles album.

It couldn't have been released on 23rd November (a Saturday).

EMI releases were always scheduled for Fridays.

[Uncle Fiesta]

It was indeed the day before but that's close enough surely?

[drakula63]

anyone using Bruce's book as their reference would, from these passages, conclude that the band had continued without him

If you look at that book in isolation, you certainly could conclude that the band had gone on. However, it's a book about Bruce Welch's life and takes his perspective. If you talk to Hank Marvin and Brian Bennett, as Mike Read did, it becomes very clear that The Shadows as a full-time enterprise did stop at that point and that anything done afterwards was a gig, not part of a continuing commitment.

And it therefore makes total sense for Hank to present Bruce with an engraved clock in recognition of his services.

I would hate for you to agree with me, Iain, on anything!

It reminds me of something that happened to a friend of mine, who was a guitarist in a band. One day it was decided by the rest of the band that they were going to 'split up'. All bands come to an end, so fair enough.

About two weeks later my friend wandered into a pub and what do you think he found? That's right, the self-same band, still with the same name, doing a gig... with a new guitarist! And this, I can assure you, is a true story.

No direct comparisons are intended. However... it seems that different people see the 'break up' of the Shadows in different ways and I for one don't see an end to things until 1970/1971 and the advent of Marvin, Welch and Farrar.

And to get us back on track...

I see from the Alan Jones interview in Pipeline 67, that he states that he played bass for Marvin, Welch and Farrar for a couple of weeks during their live shows. I'll admit that I had never heard this before. I am guessing that this must have been 1970 or '71. He also makes reference to George Ford standing in for him a couple of times when he wasn't available, which does suggest that the gig, otherwise, would have been his. In terms of 'listenability' - if that makes sense - I'd place Alan Jones up there with John Rostill and easily on a par with Alan Tarney.