Thoughts about Marvin, Welch & Farrar

[Bill Bowley]

'Roach,

I was trying to think of the name of those Matons, it was a cert that you would know it (Torro's)! Matons have always been a very underestimated guitar makers IMHO, (says he who has played but never owned one!)

[drakula63]

What I was really getting at, was that via MWF and, I suppose more so, the Shadows, John Farrar was propelled into the top echelons of the music world and many opportunities opened up for him which might not have otherwise. Working so extensively with Cliff and Olivia (on TV shows, tours, Eurovision etc) and, obviously, Hank and Bruce (and Brian) can't have been anything other than a very good thing for him. I kind of doubt that he would have ended up writing and producing for Olivia in the mid 70s had he not been in the right place at the right time. Thanks, again, to Hank and Bruce. I'm sure the world is full of immensely talented people who are worthy of getting to the top, but unfortunately, they don't get that lucky break that propels them from where they are to where they want to be.

Having said all that, I assure you that I would never underestimate John Farrar's talent and I credit him with inspiring some of the Shads best work. However, I think they helped him as much as he helped them and it was a mutually beneficial relationship.

I think this has maybe travelled a little bit off beam, but I hope you get the gist of what I was trying to say. No Marvin, Welch and Farrar - no 'You're The One That I Want'. That's my feeling anyway. Still, we'll never know what might have happened if John had stayed in Australia in 1970 instead of coming to the UK. Yes, I have no doubt he would have had a very successful professional career, but I bet it would have been significantly different...

[nivram106]

Hi All

Having been off line for a while I have found this thread very interesting. I too think the MW&F, Second Opinion and Hank & John albums are superb and rate amongst my favourite vocal albums of all time.
No one seems to have mentioned the big EMI cock up that stopped the first album in its tracks when they never anticipated the demand and did not press enough, thus causing it to stall at about number 30 in the chart. If more copies had been available the story could have been a lot different and Marvin,Welch & Farrar would have got the recognition the really deserved.

That is my little rant over, thanks for reading
Jim

[Bill Bowley]

Drakula,

Well, given that 'Grease' was one of the many projects of another Australian, Robert Stigwood I somehow think that your connection of John Farrar's composition 'Your the One That I Want' to The Shadows, apart from an instrumental version on an LP (that John Farrar wasn't on and was released well after he had left the band) is thin at the very least. The days when an Australian had to go 'hat in hand' to UK to be allowed to make a name for himself passed in to history in the early 1960's, we have done quite well world wise in the overall entertainment industries (and quite a few others) on our own merits IMHO - however this discussion is like most 'what ifs' and really never gets resolved, so as a light hearted discussion I guess we will have to leave it at that.

[Moderne]

Hi All

Having been off line for a while I have found this thread very interesting. I too think the MW&F, Second Opinion and Hank & John albums are superb and rate amongst my favourite vocal albums of all time.
No one seems to have mentioned the big EMI cock up that stopped the first album in its tracks when they never anticipated the demand and did not press enough, thus causing it to stall at about number 30 in the chart. If more copies had been available the story could have been a lot different and Marvin,Welch & Farrar would have got the recognition the really deserved.

That is my little rant over, thanks for reading
Jim

Hi Jim, I mentioned the story about the 'not enough copies pressed' cock-up in post 10 - but I've always found it a bit hard to believe. At least the 1st MW+F LP did make the charts - unlike their other LPs or singles, despite a lot of TV and radio promotion. I just don't think enough of the record-buying public could match the music to the retro/uncool image which Hank and Bruce had at the time. They were trying to put themselves in a completely different musical 'bag' which is an incredibly difficult thing to do when you have been pigeon-holed - albeit affectionately - as a group whose chart success was mainly as a pre-Beatles instrumental band.

I can't wait to see Bill's reference to Paul McCartney - at the height of Beatlemania - being tipped as a possible replacement for Licorice!! I have never heard this story before and have been a Shadows devotee for 33 years (not as long as those who were there at the start I agree but I wasn't born then!

Clive

[Bill Bowley]

Clive,

Re PMc, haven't forgotten and will post it as soon as I dig it up from the piles of 'junk' I have here!

[Bill Bowley]

Clive,

Having lived (and played in bands)through the era, I think that Beatlemania was a long way off at the end of 1962, and for most of 1963. To quote "Hit Parade Heroes - British pop Before The Beatles' by Dave McAleer:

'Even a matter of days before the release of The Beatles second single, 'Please Please Me', the usually 'on the ball' British Music Press seemed to have no idea how important The Beatles might be. The group, who were the 111th most successful chart act of 1962, were not mentioned by any of the music press round-ups of the year. Even more surprisingly, they were not listed alongside the somewhat forgettable Steve Parry, Johnny De Little, Patti Lynn, Jan Burnette and The Polka Dots in anyone's tips for 1963 success - it appeared that no-one in the music business establishment had spotted The Beatles potential.

In late November 1962 the NME announced its Poll Winners for the year.Elvis Presley was voted World's Top Male Singer, The Everly Brothers World's Top Vocal Group with Brenda Lee World's Top Female Singer- a clean sweep for the Americans. The British section winners included Cliff Richard (Top Male), Helen Shapiro (Top Female), The Shadows (Top Small Group), The Springfields (Top Vocal Group), Jet Harris (Top Instrumentalist) and Joe Brown (Top Vocal Personality). In the British Vocal Group Section, just below The Vernon Girls at No.5 were The Beatles, and they also scraped (receiving less than 250 votes) into the Top Small Groups section at No.8 behind Peter Jay and the Jaywalkers'.

So really, the idea that a bass player from a group so far down the pecking order at that time (John Rostill came from "the Interns after all) being offered a job with the 'Top Small Group' as defined by the NME Poll is not all that far from the realms of reality - and I'm sure that whatever 'crystal ball' Paul McCartney may have been using at the time it could not have told him what was in store for him nearly a year ahead in The Beatles. As to when Beatlemania came into existence, as they say in the classics 'you had to be there' and not believe the doubtful hindsight on the matter that has came to be accepted these days as 'fact'.

I am still looking for the 'source' of my belief concerning PMc and The Shadows, I will find it sooner or later, I know I have seen it somewhere amongst my resource list.......

[Bojan]

Paul McCartney in the Shadows . . . hm . . . . very interesting . . .

[Iain Purdon]

I remember at the time Licorice was leaving Hank gave a quote to the effect that there was a young bass player in LIverpool who seemed rather promising. This reference to Macca was a bit of typical Marvin humour, given that by the time of the Locking departure the Beatles were onto their 3rd No 1 hit!

MWF - fabulous. I loved their music although I agree that some of the lyrics were a bit naff.

[Pedro]

Did nothing for me. Always thought the name sounded like a firm of Solicitors