Apache-Demo question

[shadowriter]

Reading through a copy of July 1980 Record Collector (A Christmas present.) I came across a snippet
about the original demo for Apache. According to the article, the original demo was made by a guitarist named George Hesse.
and reportedly as good as the Shads final version. Good enough for Decca to want to release that version until Jerry Lordan insisted
it be the Shads version. Can anyone throw any light on this and does anyone know what happened to George Hesse?


incidentally, this Christmas present also included another old record collector with Shadows snippets and issue three of
New Candy Dancer (A Shadows Special.) my best present by a mile.

Norman

[JimN]

If Decca had wanted to release the George Hesse version (and if Hesse had been in agreement with Decca), Jerry Lordan could not have prevented it. Jerry wasn't even signed to Decca.

[shadowriter]

If Decca had wanted to release the George Hesse version (and if Hesse had been in agreement with Decca), Jerry Lordan could not have prevented it. Jerry wasn't even signed to Decca.

Ta Jim looks like a stretch of the imagination on that columnist's part
thought it was a bit far-fetched myself. Still looking to see what happened to George Hesse though.
Thanks again Jim, as helpful as ever.

Norman

[Iain Purdon]

I never heard of a George Hesse around 1960. Does anyone remember him?

I have found a guitarist called George or Georg Hesse but he seems to be younger and was active in 1980 and later. If he recorded Apache I’m sure it could not have been the original demo.

[Moderne]

I remember buying that issue of Record Collector in 1980 - I would have been 16 at the time! Without searching for it in our garden shed, I seem to remember something about 'Jim Gunner' and a disc called Hoolee Jump...was this George Hesses's recorded name? I notice this is on YouTube - credited to 'O'Mahoney' and 'Hesse'. It's an unremarkable 12-bar blues...sounds like a third rate copy of Bill Doggett's Honky Tonk!

According to the interweb, Jim Gunner (birth name - George Hesse) came from Wexford in Ireland and co-wrote some other tunes with 'Sean O'Mahoney'. Can't find any info on him having recorded a demo version of Apache, though.

NB Jim Gunner's backing group were called 'The Echoes'. Rhet Stoller's group on his magnificent Countdown single were called 'His Echoes'!

There were several other things in that article which I've never read anywhere else. At the time it was very difficult to find much information about The Shadows.

[GoldenStreet]

The 2012 CD compilation, The Haunted Pad, includes the track Desperado by Jim Gunner and his Sidekicks, attributed to the said George Hesse and Sean O'Mahoney...

http://www.45worlds.com/cdalbum/cd/acmem237cd

The track was originally issued on a Fontana single in 1961, b/w Baghdad, also by Hesse and O'Mahoney...

http://www.45cat.com/record/h313

Bill

[JimN]

Over the years, there has been a persistent story to the effect that Jim Gunner (a name apparently known to Bruce Welch), a/k/a George Hesse, did record a demo of Apache, presumably for Francis, Day & Hunter.

It is possible that the demo was supplied to The Shadows after they expressed an interest in the tune. I assume that Jerry Lordan wasn't available to hum the lead part sufficiently frequently for the tune to be learned so exactly and it is known that none of the group (except possibly for Tony) were able to read music fluently. So a demo version of some sort seems at least possible.

[Didier]

I have always heard that there was already a version recorded by Bert Weedon, but unreleased...

Didier

[Teflon]

I have always heard that there was already a version recorded by Bert Weedon, but unreleased...

Didier

Indeed, Burt Weedon was the first to record the tune. I'd always assumed that The Shadows used his version to learn the main melody, but have no reason for that assumption, and it's probably false. I believe Hank himself came up with the now iconic introductory riff, so perhaps deserved a writing credit, after all, other folk have received credits for far less

Cliff

[Moderne]

In recent years Hank has said that he came up with many of the ear-catching intros to Cliff/Shadows hits. In those days I don't think they generally gave writer credits for intros...although Hank probably deserved something as the intro "hook" plays a big part in whether a song will be a hit or not. The subject of 'demos' is an interesting one. Did Jerry Lordan always make acetates of himself singing the tunes - as he did for Diamonds and Scarlet O'Hara (which can be heard on the All My Own Work CD)? If they'd written something themselves they presumably didn't need to record a demo for each other. They've often said that tunes were 'sent' to them; does this mean that demo acetates arrived in The Shadows office? Do any of these still exist (unlikely!)? Does anyone (e.g. Jim N) know?