buying a gt quadraverb on ebay

[kipper]

hi all just wanted to bring this to your notice and see what your views are. i recently brought a gt quadraverb on ebay. details on auction were loaded with shadows patches. i emailed the seller to ask if they were charlie halls patches his reply was yes they are. so i bid and won the item. £150.00. when it arrived after pluging it in and trying it out it was clearly not charlie halls patches , i contacted charlie and he confirmed they were not his or were a pirate copy. i contacted the seller who assured me they were not a pirate version. i contacted the person who sold gt to my seller and he told me they wernt there when he sold gt. so i worked it out all on my own that my seller must have loaded them up. contacted him again and he replyed that they were charlies patches and he was a member of a shadows club at wetherby and doncaster and that most of the players there used these patches. i have asked for a refund of £50.00 so i can buy charlies genuine patches he refused this offering to give me a refund as he had another buyer for it. infringing on charlie halls copyright again. i was suprised to here that he reconds that loads of shadows members are using pirate copy`s of this. if thats true. we all know how hard charlie works at his craft surly he doesnt deserve to be cheated of his wages like this. i think i was cheated and so was charlie. am i wrong thinking this or is it all fair game stealing a copyright. am i wrong bring it up at all. i would like to here what you all think. peter

[JimN]

<shrug>

Give it back and get a refund.

What else can you do?

JN

[kipper]

hi jim thanks for reply. what about the pirate copy`s? what about the principle? what about cheating and dishonesty from other shadows members? maybe i`m over reacting on this ? maybe i am. i think i may have let it get under the skin it happens now and then maybe i`m from a different time frame when we trusted people at face value thats my kids opion anyway. look on the bright side suns shinning i`m in good health peter

[JimN]

hi jim thanks for reply. what about the pirate copy`s? what about the principle? what about cheating and dishonesty from other shadows members? maybe i`m over reacting on this ? maybe i am.

Yes, you are, I'm afraid.

i think i may have let it get under the skin it happens now and then maybe i`m from a different time frame when we trusted people at face value thats my kids opion anyway. look on the bright side suns shinning i`m in good health peter

Just think of all the millions of hooky copies there must be of Windows (various versions), Excel, Word, Pagemaker, Premier, etc.

Life's too short.

If Microsoft can swallow the majority of it... why not go with the flow?

JN

[kipper]

fair comment. peter

[noelford]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that IS fair comment! I refuse to t go along with this, 'we don't like it but everybody does it so we just have to put up with it' attitude. In my own profession, as a freelance cartoonist, we suffer a lot from the cretins who steal our work and think they can get way with it. Many of them do, but not with me, if I find out! I have successfully pursued some of these parasites, via the courts, and obtained recompense. It may be a drop in the ocean but, believe me, it's very satisfying to see even just one or two of them get stuffed. The point is that, if we all decided to do something, we could start to make a difference.

[kipper]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that IS fair comment! I refuse to t go along with this, 'we don't like it but everybody does it so we just have to put up with it' attitude. In my own profession, as a freelance cartoonist, we suffer a lot from the cretins who steal our work and think they can get way with it. Many of them do, but not with me, if I find out! I have successfully pursued some of these parasites, via the courts, and obtained recompense. It may be a drop in the ocean but, believe me, it's very satisfying to see even just one or two of them get stuffed. The point is that, if we all decided to do something, we could start to make a difference.

hi noel i did take out a case using ebay and paypal but all they wanted to do was for me to return the unit to the seller which i thought was a bit like giving all the evidense to the crimmal. so i ended up taking the unit, leaving negitive feedback and stating in the feedback details what had happened.i have also asked ebay to look into the matter as it is still breaking the law. thanks for your views which i do agree with, but was beginning to think i was just a grumpy old git thats why i thought i would put it up here see what others thought. . peter

[JimN]

Hello, Peter,

If that is what you want to do, that's your prerogative, of course. I dare say you'll be receiving a reasonable amount of support from various quarters - understandably so.

But this is not the first time that such a topic has been raised here. From memory, there was an involved and quite acrimonious thread on more or less the same subject a few years ago, when we were still on the MSN boards (and which, for that reason, will not be in the available archive). I seem to remember that the consensus opinion was that it is not the duty of members here to take sides in private commercial disputes. But that was reached only after a bit of quite unnecessary bad feeling had been caused.

Best wishes,

JN

[noelford]

Just to be clear, I'm not really talking about individuals who might obtain the odd copy of something from a friend or colleague. I know that's technically theft, too, but who amongst us can hold their hand up and honestly say they have NEVER accepted a copied CD or the like? The people I am talking about are those who steal other people's intellectual property and sell it on a commercial basis via eBay and other such outlets. These people aren 't doing it as a favour they are doing it to make money.

[kipper]

Hello, Peter,

If that is what you want to do, that's your prerogative, of course. I dare say you'll be receiving a reasonable amount of support from various quarters - understandably so.

But this is not the first time that such a topic has been raised here. From memory, there was an involved and quite acrimonious thread on more or less the same subject a few years ago, when we were still on the MSN boards (and which, for that reason, will not be in the available archive). I seem to remember that the consensus opinion was that it is not the duty of members here to take sides in private commercial disputes. But that was reached only after a bit of quite unnecessary bad feeling had been caused.

Best wishes,

JN

hi jim thanks for the imput. i think to a degree your right thats why i said fair comment in my reply, i have left the seller negitive feedback saying in my comments what had gone on. but part of it does grind on me personaly. i hope this doesent go that way that was never my intension what i was doing by raising this was i think airing the resentment i felt in what had gone on and it has made me feel better for it and i do respect and thank you for your input. i am not on a crusade just a bit pisxxx off. it does make you feel better having said something but again agree with you in hoping we can discuse it in a proper way like what we are peter