Cliff Hall - Who's on bass ?

[drakula63]

Back in 1983, yes I can just about remember that far back!, I went to see The Shadows at the Derby Assembly Rooms. During the band intros, Hank (I think) accidentally introduced either Alan Jones as Cliff Hall, or Cliff Hall as Alan Jones. Anyway, quick as a flash, they swapped places and began to play, in a very basic fashion, on each others instruments. So I for one can certainly claim to have seen (and heard) Cliff Hall play bass!!!



Anyone else here who was at that gig?

Also; is it true that Alan Hawkshaw played bass on A Little Bitty Tear on the 1969 Live at Sankei Hall album?

[iefje]

Back in 1983, yes I can just about remember that far back!, I went to see The Shadows at the Derby Assembly Rooms. During the band intros, Hank (I think) accidentally introduced either Alan Jones as Cliff Hall, or Cliff Hall as Alan Jones. Anyway, quick as a flash, they swapped places and began to play, in a very basic fashion, on each others instruments. So I for one can certainly claim to have seen (and heard) Cliff Hall play bass!!!



Anyone else here who was at that gig?

Also; is it true that Alan Hawkshaw played bass on A Little Bitty Tear on the 1969 Live at Sankei Hall album?

I would have loved to have seen that, typical Shadows humour!

So if Alan Hawkshaw played bass on "A Little Bitty Tear", the line-up for that particular song must have been:
Hank on lead guitar and vocals;
John on rhythm guitar and vocals;
Brian on percussion;
Alan Hawkshaw on bass.

Strange line-up, if true!

By the way, Alan Jones started out playing lead guitar. Are there any recordings of him playing lead guitar? I have a copy of his solo album "A Shadow In Time", but I can't remember at the moment if he played anything other than bass guitar on that album.

[StuartD]

Hi

I saw most of the Shadows gigs in this country with Alan Hawkshaw on Piano/Organ and he most definitely did not play Bass on Little Bitty Tear, so it's safe to assume he didn't play Bass in Japan as well. He didn't come to the front for that or Puttin on the Style.

Regards

Stuart

[drakula63]

Thanks, Phil, for clearing that up. I knew that I had read it somewhere, but couldn't recall where. So now we know.

Can I just deviate slightly from this topic - only slightly, mind. A bit excited at the moment, as I've just won a copy of Brian's 1969 album 'The Illustrated London Noise' on eBay. It's the original LP and it's cost me about £36, which I think is quite reasonable. My apologies if I was bidding against anyone else from around these parts! Sorry. Well, I'm not that sorry, as it's an album I've wanted for a long time and, touch wood, shortly I shall have it in my trembling, sweaty hands. I can't wait. Thanks eBay!!!

[JimN]

Hi Stuart,

I saw the 1969 Cliff & The Shadows show at Newcastle and Alan didn't play bass on 'Little Bitty Tear' at that particular concert.
On "The Shadows Live In Japan" album, however, 2 acoustic guitars and bass plus BB on tambourine can be heard.
I put the suggestion to Alan Hawkshaw, in June 2008, that John Rostill might have played acoustic guitar and Alan play bass on this number in Japan.
I still have the email in my archives:

Ludwig: ".....There is some interesting discussion about 1969 Shadows' tour of Japan on one of the Shadows' websites. On the album recorded during the tour 'The Shadows Live In Japan' there is a vocal track 'Little Bitty Tear' on which there sounds to be two acoustic guitars, bass and tambourine. You were on keyboards for this tour and John Rostill on bass - but might you remember if on this track John Rostill played acoustic guitar and you might of played bass ?....."

Alan Hawkshaw: "As I recall it I did play bass on this title."

Hope that helps,
Regards,
Phil.

Bass... or bass on the keyboards (possibly on bass pedals)?

Like Stuart, I can't remember seeing Alan H come out from behind his keyboards!

But, on the other hand, we saw the act in the UK, and the recordings were made in Japan...

JN

[iefje]

Thanks, Phil, for clearing that up. I knew that I had read it somewhere, but couldn't recall where. So now we know.

Can I just deviate slightly from this topic - only slightly, mind. A bit excited at the moment, as I've just won a copy of Brian's 1969 album 'The Illustrated London Noise' on eBay. It's the original LP and it's cost me about £36, which I think is quite reasonable. My apologies if I was bidding against anyone else from around these parts! Sorry. Well, I'm not that sorry, as it's an album I've wanted for a long time and, touch wood, shortly I shall have it in my trembling, sweaty hands. I can't wait. Thanks eBay!!!

Hi Chris,

Pleased you avoided the recent CD re-release on eBay. When I heard it it seems to have been dubbed from just one channel of a vinyl.

£36 sounds a good price - last time I looked in Record Collector I think the LP was valued about £60/80.

I remember a Japanese red vinyl pressing sold on eBay in excess of a couple of hundred pounds. Brian joked it was more than he got for making the album !

I bought my LP version new for 60p from Robinson's Records - a favourite haunt of my Manchester student days. I no longer have a turntable in my system but this is one LP i would never want to part with.

I can't think of any other recordings were Brian has the same drum sound as 'The Illustrated London Noise'.

Regards,
Phil.

The CD re-release you mean, is this the one with the complete album "The Illustrated London Noise" with a couple of tracks from "Change Of Direction" added? I have seen copies floating around on eBay and even on one of the fan meetings in Tilburg, The Netherlands. I have looked at it and it looks kind of official, but I think it is a pirate release. You said it was dubbed from just one channel of a vinyl, that makes it even more of a pirate or bootleg release in my opinion!
My father already owned the original UK LP around the time it was released, as well as its predecessor. We still have them, as well as the 1987 See For Miles LP "Change Of Direction With The Best Of The Illustrated London Noise" and the 1990 See For Miles CD "Change Of Direction With The Best Of The Illustrated London Noise...Plus", containing both albums complete, but the second one in different order. These are certainly official and come from original master tapes.

[JimN]

Lefje.

Those two Brian Bennett LPs have been re-released a number of times, in various different formats.

When See For Miles did the first official reissue, they were also pressing vinyl copies and were thus limited by the playing time of the LP. For that reason, the first version on Colin Miles' label (SEE 205) featured all of "Change Of Direction" but only some of the tracks from "The Illustrated London Noise", and the overall title of the disc reflected that. So the vinyl version contained about one and a half LPs, as you suggested, but the other way round!

When the collection was put out on a CD (SEE CD 205; UK 1990), there was sufficient time available for the complete contents of both LPs, and so they were reproduced in their entirety, as "Change Of Direction with the best of The Illustrated London Noise ... PLUS". The rear inlay contained the note: "Now contains the whole of the illustrated London noise!" [sic]. It was issued in stereo, of course.

Obviously, though that CD was available for a while, it was certainly no longer available when the EMI licence deal ran out or when SFM folded, whichever came the sooner.

See For Miles also re-released others of Brian's LPs:

(a) "Misty" (by Collage) - C5CD 610 (1994)
(b) "One Step Ahead" (by Heat Exchange) - C5CD 609 (1994)
(c) "Rock Dreams" and "Voyage" - C5HCD 661 (1997).

I understand that the "Voyage" LP was dubbed for the CD master from a pristine vinyl copy, as the original master tape (apparently in the possession of DJM Records) could not be located.

Is it impossible to locate a copy of the See For Miles version?

JN

[Iain Purdon]

The tonal sound and stereo position of the bass on "Little Bitty Tear" sounds the same (to me) as the tracks John Rostill played on.

I have a sense of deja vu about this one. In an earlier thread I'm sure it was stated that Alan H played keyboard bass for "A Little Bitty Tear". On the strength of that I dug it out, listened and instantly thought, right enough, that sounds nothing like Rostill !

I wonder what the other Mr Jarvis thinks!

Cheers - Iain

[iefje]

Lefje.

Those two Brian Bennett LPs have been re-released a number of times, in various different formats.

When See For Miles did the first official reissue, they were also pressing vinyl copies and were thus limited by the playing time of the LP. For that reason, the first version on Colin Miles' label (SEE 205) featured all of "Change Of Direction" but only some of the tracks from "The Illustrated London Noise", and the overall title of the disc reflected that. So the vinyl version contained about one and a half LPs, as you suggested, but the other way round!

When the collection was put out on a CD (SEE CD 205; UK 1990), there was sufficient time available for the complete contents of both LPs, and so they were reproduced in their entirety, as "Change Of Direction with the best of The Illustrated London Noise ... PLUS". The rear inlay contained the note: "Now contains the whole of the illustrated London noise!" [sic]. It was issued in stereo, of course.

Obviously, though that CD was available for a while, it was certainly no longer available when the EMI licence deal ran out or when SFM folded, whichever came the sooner.

See For Miles also re-released others of Brian's LPs:

(a) "Misty" (by Collage) - C5CD 610 (1994)
(b) "One Step Ahead" (by Heat Exchange) - C5CD 609 (1994)
(c) "Rock Dreams" and "Voyage" - C5HCD 661 (1997).

I understand that the "Voyage" LP was dubbed for the CD master from a pristine vinyl copy, as the original master tape (apparently in the possession of DJM Records) could not be located.

Is it impossible to locate a copy of the See For Miles version?

JN

Weren't both albums "Rock Dreams" and "Voyage" dubbed from vinyl for use on See For Miles' CD release?

What would be great, I think, is if EMI Records themselves would re-release Brian's first two solo albums on CD, digitally remastered:
CD 1: "Change Of Direction" in mono and stereo (as they were in 1967);
CD 2: "The Illustrated London Noise" in stereo only (as it was in 1969) with the 1970 Columbia/EMI single "Ridin' On The Gravy Train"/"Bubble Drum" (under the pseudonym "Thunder Company") and the demo edit of the A-side.
I know the Thunder Company single has been issued on the fantastic Waffles Music compilation CD "Official Bootleg Volume One", but "Ridin' On The Gravy Train" was there in its edited demo form.

Of the above then, none of those tracks have ever been re-issued on CD by EMI Records, whereas the mono issue of "Change Of Direction" and the full version of "Ridin' On The Gravy Train" have never ever been re-issued on CD anywhere.

[iefje]

I think it's a pity See For Miles Records does not exist anymore. My father and I have the following fantastic releases by the label, Shadows-related and non-Shadows-related:
- CD: The Shadows "The EP Collection";
- CD: The Shadows "The EP Collection Vol.2";
- CD: The Shadows "The EP Collection Vol.3";
- CD: The Shadows "Shadstrax";
- CD: The Shadows "Guardian Angel...Plus";
- 2 CD: The Shadows "'Live' At Abbey Road/Live At The Liverpool Empire";
- LP: Hank Marvin "Would You Believe It...Plus!";
- CD: Hank Marvin Guitar Syndicate "The Hank Marvin Guitar Syndicate";
- LP: Brian Bennett "Change Of Direction With The Best Of The Illustrated London Noise";
- CD: Brian Bennett "Change Of Direction With The Best Of The Illustrated London Noise...Plus";
- CD: Brian Bennett's Collage "Misty";
- CD: Brian Bennett's Heat Exchange "One Step Ahead";
- CD: Brian Bennett "Rock Dreams/Voyage";
- LP: Various artists "20 Classic Instrumental Rarities";
- LP: Cliff Richard "The EP Collection - Ballads And Love Songs";
- CD: Cliff Richard "The EP Collection - Ballads And Love Songs";
- CD: Duane Eddy "Duane Eddy" (1987 album with special guests).

Also, we have numerous of The Ventures' '2-on-1' CD's by See For Miles Records. Maybe I left out a few, but I will check at home.

Presentation and musical content of all the above is outstanding!