That Early Shadows Sound

[dave robinson]

I think we've been here before - three words 'top boost amp'.

Other differences could be the rosewood board Strat that Hank had as opposed to the '59 model, but the engineer was the same one all the way through the sixties, Malcolm Addey, who was given the responsibility of engineering 'Move It' on his first solo effort, which could have sounded different had the senior engineer mixed it. Interestingly, The Shadows sound continued to mellow as time went by.

[almano]

That's interesting - would the mixing desk perhaps be the same one for both sessions, or a different unit do you think?

Cheers,

Alan.

[dave robinson]

I believe it to be the same desk.

[Didier]

Profuse apologies... I was thinking of the 1962 Paris photos someone posted here, which had a Gretsch behind Hank, which I was sure was a double cutaway. It's not.

Here is the 1962 photo at the Paris Olympia (By Jean-Louis Rancurel) :




Didier

[Didier]

Hank's Gretsch 6122 Country Gentleman was indeed a single-cutaway model. He bought it in 1960 (that can easily be deduced from other evidence). The double-cut "George Harrison" model(s) wasn't/weren't introduced until at least 1961.

In Jim,
When Bruce came to the French Meeting in 2006, I asked Bruce about Hank's Gtresch, and he told me that it was bought in 1961.

Didier

[almano]

It’s a very interesting thing to note, as Dave says, that the recording engineer Malcolm Addey, and the mixing desk are the same for both of those early Shad’s recordings. This of course then rules out any variation on that side of things for this noticeable change in the sound from one disc to the other.

One other variable however, which still remains, could just possibly be the monitor speakers used for the mix with those discs. Did EMI perhaps change monitors in that time?

All of you who have done mix down work on different monitors will have noticed the effect that I am talking about. It is so easy to get a good ‘mix down’ on one set of speakers – and then play back the mix on a different set up and get a very different sound. Could this have possibly been the case?

However, I have to say I’ve also noticed that same sort of sound change seemingly appearing with the Beatles ‘Please Please Me’ disc compared to their subsequent recordings. Again, that rawness of sound which is so very appealing and evocative becomes somewhat smoother and smoother as their career progresses. Is it no more than this which has happened with the Shads sounds perhaps?

Cheers,

Alan.

[Paul Creasey]

and ...................I suspect.............that Tony was using an early, prototype, pair of nylon tip Premier "E" drumsticks!!
Keep up the good work, all you avid "listeners"!
Regards
Paul

[dave robinson]

Good recording studios would never have had changes in their monitor speakers that would colour the sound in a way that an artistes sound would be affected.The flat response of any monitors in such a studio as Abbey Road would be maintained through any equipment changes, such was the quality of their gear.
However, early in the sixties the Vox amps that The Shadows used were changed for the later improved versions which included the TOP BOOST circuit on Hank's and Bruce's amps. I don't know how long it was before these amps were used in the studio for recordings, but there would have been a big difference in sound from the earlier EF86 preamp driven versions of their amps. I hear the Top Boost sound on stuff they recorded after Guitar Tango, especially on Atlantis/Shindig/Theme For Young Lovers and then the Burns sound becomes very distinctive after those tunes, it became a more drier and nasal tone than the early sound. I am convinced of this because I have each of these types of Vox amplifier as well as Fender and Burns guitars, which makes it easy to set up and replicate an almost identical tone for whatever period. The core sound is apparent but the elusive magic is almost definitely the lack of the Abbey Road studio.

The Beatles were using Vox amps too and I suspect that their sound changed because of this too, by 1965-ish, they had the later Vox amps which were transistorised as well as recording with a couple of Fender Strats, though not using them on gigs. The Strat can be heard on quite a few tracks from the 'Rubber Soul' album onwards. The Beatles also began using Fender amps after Brian Epstein died, as it was he who guaranteed that they would use Vox amps after he got them to supply free amps at the begining of their rise to fame.

I don't believe there is any mystery here, it's called progress.

[JimN]

Hank's Gretsch 6122 Country Gentleman was indeed a single-cutaway model. He bought it in 1960 (that can easily be deduced from other evidence). The double-cut "George Harrison" model(s) wasn't/weren't introduced until at least 1961.

In Jim,
When Bruce came to the French Meeting in 2006, I asked Bruce about Hank's Gtresch, and he told me that it was bought in 1961.

Didier

As I said, a 1960 purchase can easily be deduced. Some years ago, Bruce told me that he bought his Gretsch after Hank bought his, which seems to me to be the type of detail he would not mistake. Bruce's Gretsch was used on British TV on the evening of 31st December 1960...

QED.

JN

[almano]

Dave is quite right in post #68 – reputable recording studios would never compromise an artistes’ reputation by using ‘coloured’ recording techniques which would alter an artistes’ own sound in any way. Control rooms are set up to be very neutral sound wise these days – they offer as accurate a rendition of the artistes’ musical creation as the artistes’ themselves envisaged.

However, that is what happens today – fifty years ago this wasn’t the case. As I said in an earlier post – they even used domestic Leak TL12’s to drive the cutter head when making the lacquer for the subsequent stamper. Things just weren’t so carefully done back in the early sixties.

I mentioned the possibility of the monitor speaker being a possible variable – well, after trawling through a tea chest full of ancient copies of “Studio Sound” (the in house mag for recording studios a few decades ago) – it seems that these built in and calibrated monitor systems we use now only really came in, in the later seventies and the eighties. Before then it seems to have been somewhat hit and miss with monitoring.

In ‘59/60, the monitoring was actually done via the amplifier built into the main tape recorder! It’s true, just read this extract from an interview Malcolm Addey did on the subject, I quote : “The monitor speaker, positioned to the left of the console, was a Tannoy 15-inch dual-concentric mounted inside a large bass reflex enclosure and driven by the power amp built into an EMI BTR2 mono tape machine.”

Now, I know what these 15” Tannoy’s sound like, I had a pair in the ‘70’s – they are good, but they are coloured – I changed them up in the ‘80’s for a pair of B & W 801’s (which I still use – and haven’t found nothing yet to beat them, except of course for those B & W big ‘uns EMI use these days!)

Malcolm’s interview was about the recording of Cliff and the Shad’s “Move it” and the equipment used at the time; it is still available on line – do please read it and see what you think. Here is a link to the interview, I hope you find it interesting : http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov03/articles/classictracks.htm

(By the way, it’s also got some interesting photos in there as well.)

Cheers,

Alan.