The Savage -Norrie Paramor!!

[neil2726]

The savage is dedicated as having been composed by Norrie Paramor. While I have no doubt that the main melody is his creation, the middle section does not seem to be at all his style! To me this is pure Hank improvisation - but not credited to him. Any thoughts anyone?

[Martin Page]

Yes, that would definitely be Hank improvising.

On a similar theme, I've often wondered about the solo to Bossa Roo. The tune is attributed to Rostill and Welch as writers but Hank does a fantastic Jazzy solo in it. I've always wondered if Hank 'wrote' the solo or was it one of the other two? If it was Hank, you think he should've received a writing credit because although the solo is improvised round the verse chord structure, it's a remarkable melodic solo achievement...

Martin.

[Pierre TEODORI]

Hi Martin,
I agree with you, but I can tell you if I was credited as writer or arranger each time I bring something important on a tune on which I play guitars or another instruments, I would be rich!! but this is often "In The Shadows"

Best regards

Pierre

[Stratpicker]

Definitely Improv by Hank. The middle of Witch Doctor (the same tune but re-named) is distinctly different and there are quite a few well known re-takes around where Hank plays it "similar" but not the same. I guess that at the time, there was no way they could "punch in" the best of the Bridges into another take so the Release we all know and love must have been chosen as the "Best" overall - and I think it was.
cheers
ian
now if only I could play it properly!! Ecca, where are you when we need you??!!!
Tutorial!!!!!!:D

[ecca]

Sloxprrrrrrangashilpapants.....

www.eccathacker.com/savsolo.wmv

Amanda put it up on Youtube but it was taken off at my request .
What was forgotten was that I was asked to do it some years back .
It's the Shads playing, not me.
I was just trying to show how I did it.

[Dance with Shadows]

Neil

Interesting question. But since The Shadows started to play a different improvised part at live performances do you still call the song The Savage?

Michael

[Didier]

The savage is dedicated as having been composed by Norrie Paramor. While I have no doubt that the main melody is his creation, the middle section does not seem to be at all his style! To me this is pure Hank improvisation - but not credited to him. Any thoughts anyone?

It's certainly the case, and Hank played the middle section quite differently during the "Final Tour" and "The Final Reunion".

BTW, the Shadows were not willing to have it released as a single. They thought it didn't have enough potential for that, but while they were on tour, Norrie Paramor released it on a single with "Peace Pipe" on the B side.
It went up to the 10th position in the single charts, and I guess it brought some valuable royalties for Norrie Paramor who composed both tunes !

Didier

[Iain Purdon]

I read somewhere of an icy phone call about this between a Shadow abroad and Paramor at home. After the Shads' discontent had been registered, Paramor is quoted as saying "I'm not happy about this". And the retort? "Well that makes five of us."

In those days the A and B sides attracted the same royalty and so NP as composer would have done very nicely thank you.

I believe the basic tune is what defines the composition and, indeed, its composer(s). Adlibbing or embellishing at the time of recording was and is commonplace, especially with players like Hank. With session players, like Alan Jones, for example, the same is true and lovely bass lines like his would not normally get a credit unless the contribution is above and beyond what is considered normal in an essentially creative field.

Iain

[neil2726]

If the main theme is still there , yes I would still call it the Savage. I realise that Hank has done several variations to the middle bit over the years, as he has with many other Shads standards - Frightened City and Flingle Bunt for example. I've noted small changes to Foottapper, Atlantis and even Wonderful land but would still give them the original title!

[Pierre TEODORI]

I believe the basic tune is what defines the composition and, indeed, its composer(s). Adlibbing or embellishing at the time of recording was and is commonplace, especially with players like Hank. With session players, like Alan Jones, for example, the same is true and lovely bass lines like his would not normally get a credit unless the contribution is above and beyond what is considered normal in an essentially creative field.



Hi Ian,

I agree with your comment regarding the contribution of the musicians, and particularly with the sessions players, and if some musicians are more creative than others, it's also the composition which also gives inspiration to them. What I just wanted to mean is: it happens often enough that a session musician brings more than only "normal creativity" on a tune, but an important part of the arrangement, and this is what I called"In the shadows" because nobody will know, and this musician will be quoted (when he is) as a "simple musician".

Best Regards
Pierre

PS: sorry if my comment is a little bit out of the real topic, it's just because I'm myself a recording session musician since a long time.