"Saturday Dance" & "Lonesome Fella" ('stereo' versions??)

[Arpeggio]

Hi Everyone,
For a few months I'd been mulling over purchasing "The Shadows, Drifters & Chesternuts" on Magic Records (MAM 106) as the bonus tracks listed both "Saturday Dance" and "Lonesome Fella" as stereo versions. As we all know - these tracks have never previously been released in stereo. I do know that EMI had the capability to record in stereo from at least 1958 onwards - but not usually for Popular Music releases. Some years ago I bought a Michael Holliday archive CD. Someone involved with that had gone back to his 1950s masters and the CD featured some first - time stereos. Many of the tracks dated from 1958 - 59. So, I was hopeful that maybe Magic had gone back to the EMI master tapes to remix into stereo.

NO!! To be honest - I'm extremely disappointed. All that's happened is that someone (presumably utilising computer technology) has manufactured some kind of crude mock - stereo (DCS or Sync - Up??) versions - but, the results (IMHO) are awful. I only purchased the CD on the strength of this - what a waste of money. Has anyone else purchased this CD & if so...what are your thoughts on the so - called new stereo versions of "Lonesome Fella" and "Saturday Dance"??

Rob

[Fenderman]

One thing i can't stand is mock stereo, this seemed to be the norm back in the late 70's/early 80's (the first release of 20 Golden Greats was released as mock stereo) when releasing older material. I bought 'Jimi Hendrix at the BBC' a while back and some of the tracks were in mock stereo for some strange reason, despite the BBC only being able to broadcast in mono in the late 60's.

[Didier]

Hi Everyone,
For a few months I'd been mulling over purchasing "The Shadows, Drifters & Chesternuts" on Magic Records (MAM 106) as the bonus tracks listed both "Saturday Dance" and "Lonesome Fella" as stereo versions. As we all know - these tracks have never previously been released in stereo. I do know that EMI had the capability to record in stereo from at least 1958 onwards - but not usually for Popular Music releases. Some years ago I bought a Michael Holliday archive CD. Someone involved with that had gone back to his 1950s masters and the CD featured some first - time stereos. Many of the tracks dated from 1958 - 59. So, I was hopeful that maybe Magic had gone back to the EMI master tapes to remix into stereo.

NO!! To be honest - I'm extremely disappointed. All that's happened is that someone (presumably utilising computer technology) has manufactured some kind of crude mock - stereo (DCS or Sync - Up??) versions - but, the results (IMHO) are awful. I only purchased the CD on the strength of this - what a waste of money. Has anyone else purchased this CD & if so...what are your thoughts on the so - called new stereo versions of "Lonesome Fella" and "Saturday Dance"??

Rob

I had a few emails exchanges with Martial Martinay, the boss of Magic Records. He told me that he got all the Shadows he published directly from EMI, and I doubt he produced himself the mock stereo version. It must have been done by EMI. This early recordings were certainly not recorded in stereo.

Didier

[Arpeggio]

Thanks Didier. Ineresting. This was my thinking process: - Singer Michael Holliday (very famous in the UK) had a lot of material recorded by EMI during 1958 - 1959 which was only ever released in mono. On the CD that I had several tracks (previously only ever released in mono and dating from 1959) were made available in stereo. It occurred to me that, as "Saturday Dance" and "Lonesome Fella" were also recorded during 1959 that stereo versions had finally been made available for the very first time. Obviously not.

Bests....Rob

[UlrichS]

Hi all,

Magic Records re-issued the Shadows compilation album "Somethin' Else!!" (with bonus tracks) in 1998 (MAM 113 / 3930609). If me memory serves me right it was the first release in the thin cardboard sleeves.
Apart from the bonus tracks this CD was an exact replica of the original LP including the first two track 'Lonesome Fella' and 'Saturday Dance' in mock stereo as they were with this LP. The original sleeve notes and the ones on this CD prominently state these tracks as 'electronically reprocessed to give a stereo effect' and marked by Ø.
I think that Magic Records received those tracks from EMI just as they were used for the "Somethin' Else!!" album. Thus it sounds logic to me that Magic Records used these recordings.

Best wishes,

Ulrich

[Arpeggio]

I'm sure that your correct Ulrich. If the Magic CD (MAM 106) had said: BONUS TRACKS - Lonesome Fella (mock stereo ve rsion) and Saturday Dance (mock stereo version) - then I wouldn't have bought it. It was the definite 'statement' (stereo version) which convinced me that something new had been found. So.....a little disingenuous to say the least.

Thanks, as ever, for your invaluable input.

Bests....Rob

[JimN]

Rob,

I'm fairly sure that the "stereo" versions of those two tracks are lifted from the EMI UK vinyl release "Somethin' Else!", from 1969.

The previous Magic Records reissue of that LP (with nine bonus tracks) definitely contained dubbed-from-vinyl copies of those two mock-stereo tracks taken - none too expertly, in my opinion - from the original 12" disc.

JN

[JimN]

One thing i can't stand is mock stereo, this seemed to be the norm back in the late 70's/early 80's (the first release of 20 Golden Greats was released as mock stereo)

Only a few tracks: FBI, Wonderful Land and Foot Tapper.

The other seventeen tracks were in true stereo, though the whole album (on vinyl) was compressed to death.

That particular mock-stereo mix of Foot Tapper has never been re-used except on a South African compilation CD.

JN

[JimN]

Back in the 1960s, mock-stereo treatment of mono audio was capable of giving pretty good results, though it wasn't necessarily done well every time.

Today, digital techniques can give astounding results (see, for instance the "Classic Years in Digital Stereo" series of CDs - and BBC radio programme - back in the late 1980s).

Here's an offering of a short file (an extract from Lonesome Fella) to illustrate what can be done today - and this at home on a bog-standard PC, even when disracted by ragig toothache.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/e22svm

Or if you don't want to install the download software:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CAtuL35g7k

c. 30s.

Starts in mono, moves into stereo.

What do you think?

JN

[iefje]

Hi all,

Magic Records re-issued the Shadows compilation album "Somethin' Else!!" (with bonus tracks) in 1998 (MAM 113 / 3930609). If me memory serves me right it was the first release in the thin cardboard sleeves.
Apart from the bonus tracks this CD was an exact replica of the original LP including the first two track 'Lonesome Fella' and 'Saturday Dance' in mock stereo as they were with this LP. The original sleeve notes and the ones on this CD prominently state these tracks as 'electronically reprocessed to give a stereo effect' and marked by Ø.
I think that Magic Records received those tracks from EMI just as they were used for the "Somethin' Else!!" album. Thus it sounds logic to me that Magic Records used these recordings.

Best wishes,

Ulrich

Worse still, the Magic Records issue of "Somethin' Else!!" has the left and right channels reversed for ALL tracks! The same probably also applies to the Cliff Richard & The Shadows compilations "Early Rock 'N' Roll Songs". Another whole batch of alternate mixes!
I don't think Magic Records has used original master tapes for all Shadows tracks the company has issued over the years. Listen to "Little 'B'" in its 'British' form (with Hank, Bruce and Brian Licorice's percussion) and in its 'French' form (without the percussion of the three guitarists, first issued in 1962 on the French 10" issue of "Out Of The Shadows"). The latter really sounds as though it has been taken from vinyl disc. The same can be said about the 'acoustic' version of "Genie With The Light Brown Lamp" and the alternate take of "All Day", first issued on the 1966 Japanese album "Thunderbirds Are Go!".
Magic Records started off very promisingly in the late 1990's with Shadows compilations, but from about late 2004 on, started to tamper with the sound mix of their compilations, either creating mono mixes out of stereo mixes or reversing the stereo image of tracks. Also, information printed on the sleeves is often inaccurate, as the example of this discussion proves.