Don't dismiss VST plugins

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Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Detailed Infinity » 05 Oct 2011, 13:07

This subject has been aired by me many times. There are quite a few members who support VST echoes but for personal reasons stay with a hardware echo unit. I accept it's more convinient for live gigging but let me dig down deep on this subject.

The main theme for Shad stuff is to replicate the sound of Hank's lead line. Take for example his lead on W/Land. The main giveaway is the damped string as they move along the echo head placements and their timings and amplitude along with wow & flutter AT THE TIME OF HIS RECORDING. No one can place head No1 and so on to be placed in exactly the same postion of the tape as those notes were played. In effect you can't replicate W/Land or any other piece of music, not even Marvin himself because of this anomaly.

This is where VST come to the fore. The lead line, recorded dry, can be placed in 99% of the time within the VST and non destructivley trialed so that the taps and speed etc are placed in sync with the tape heads as they were originaly recorded.

What I do is to take the 10 seconds or so of the muted part where it's more easy to work and get that elusive di dit de dha within the echo pinned and save as a preset for the whole recording. Now Piet and Jacob have worked on settings for the eTAP Engineer. You can dig deeper with VST, you're able to bring the guitar gain up or down as happens in W/Land in your editor prior to the echo effect. It is possible therefore to match the amplitude of Marvin's gain and tone and then shove it through a VST echo.

Remember, all this is done as I said non-destructivley as you keep the original recording you've done to use as a master.

If you play and record your line to your PC with your stuff having been through an outboard amp--compressor--echo and so on then you can't work on the file. You need a dry unadulterated sound. You can do this within the digital domain.

Just think about it when thousands of £s are being spent on hardware for bedroom use.

Here endeth the lesson :)

Bri.
Detailed Infinity
 

Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby John Haldane » 05 Oct 2011, 14:41

Hi
Very intersting post ,will have to give it a go.
Cheers
John H
John Haldane
 

Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Bojan » 05 Oct 2011, 16:34

Bri, I agree with you 100% . . . I always use Piet's excellent eTAP2 plugin.

If anyone is interested, I have just posted a new video on this forum, Tales of a Raggy Tramline, using the eTAP2 to emulate the Meazzi Echomatic 2.

Cheers,
Bojan
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Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Detailed Infinity » 05 Oct 2011, 20:36

Detailed Infinity
 

Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby tolo » 05 Oct 2011, 21:52

I have not tried eTAP at all - but just to second this idea / topic as a suggestion, all of the soundfiles I have ever posted on here have been recorded without hardware (except the guitar of course) of any kind, amps, pedals, echo units, EQ's.....all done thru a sim, albeit a very comprehensive one (Amplitube 3) - directly hosted via ProTools. The sounds are lovely and pure - as long as the signal is... A great Audio interface is crucial here for the digital conversion... The playing and 'touch' still has to be there of course - in fact there is less room there for 'hiding' in this regard because the recordings are so pristine.

Technology is wonderful - embrace it...

Now - can I have an RTAS version for ProTools?? Please?!!!

Best to all

Tony.
http://www.tonylowther.com

ProTools 2020 - UA Apollo - Furman AC210 - 10.13 - i7 3.4Ghz Quad - 32G Crucial DDR3
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Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Detailed Infinity » 06 Oct 2011, 08:50

Hi Tony, my post was written for the absolute purists who've been chasing that sound of Marvin's lead guitar. Over the years I've seen the ittle Zoom 508,the Atlantis, various rack Zooms and the more recent pedal Zoom along with the one from Australia come into fashion and subsequently fall away into history.

I've read of people first buying one then ditching it forthe newer unit as it comes into the arena. Very expensive way of getting Marvin's sound. I remember back in the early 2000's the Zoom 2000 rack was rated as the bee's knees & players, including me, bought it---I flogged it a year later.

Tony you are right, it's hard to get the feel of a sound if played dry and as you say, if a melody is played to it's best it will sound right. However, put that sound as your master into digital form and there's no limit to the level of production you can apply to that recording in an editor using VST.

As for the question of RTAS compatability, this is one that I unfortunatly can't answer, however by asking about the compatability within your application tells me that you'd like to have at least the opportunity of working on your recorded track, just to experiment on how it sounds with this and that effect within the EFX chain.


Bri
Last edited by Detailed Infinity on 06 Oct 2011, 20:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Didier » 06 Oct 2011, 08:58

Here is someone who use VSTs as only effects to emulate Hank's sound : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8uY7pBl ... re=related

He is a member of our French forum, and has written a tutorial on how to install and use them, but it's in French...

Didier
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Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Detailed Infinity » 06 Oct 2011, 11:07

The guy's a good advacate Didier. I'd like to see his manual--might pick up stuff I don't know.

This has been posted by me before but i'll bore everyone on more time. First min has no efx then the chain is switched on. You can only achieve this by having every track in the mix dry.

http://www.box.net/shared/ykcs45ikt24p797rq5l4

Here's a very good VST Amp. Doesn't cost a bean. Remember you don't plug your guitar into it. It acts on the dry sound within the programe

Bri
Bar Gig VST Amp Suite.jpg
(385.44 KiB) Downloaded 5314 times
Detailed Infinity
 

Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby Detailed Infinity » 06 Oct 2011, 15:04

Just messing with settings. No definitive echo attributable to Apache, just tripping up and down the keyboard so to speak. Excuse the rough technique on my screen capture--it's rubbish I know but you can follow it if you get a pair of binos :lol:

My string height need raising as well, not ringing as they should. :cry:


http://youtu.be/HrjjUwAuhIE

Bri
Detailed Infinity
 

Re: Don't dismiss VST plugins

Postby John Haldane » 07 Oct 2011, 15:06

I used e Tap on a recording last night very, very impressed, I could not tell the difference between my Zoom G2 and etap, it is a bit strange playing a clean sound with no echo,but with more practice should be ok, will use e tap for recording and G2 for playing through amp.
Regards
John H
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