Camcorder advice

[Martin Page]

Can anyone recommend a fairly cheap camcorder around the £100 - £130 range? It would be used for taking videos of our band and to be suitable for YouTube uploading.

Thanks in advance...

Martin.

[Didier]

The weak point of usual camcorders are buil-in microphones, particularly in this price range, and very few have connections for external mics.
One solution is audio/video recorder such as the Zoom Q3, which is far better for the sound, but video quality isn't very good, and the lack of optical zoom makes it not suitable for filming at distance.
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/q3/ (not sure it's still available in the UK)

The Zoom Q3HD model has better video quality, but still misses an optical zoom, and it's above your price range, unless if you find a second hand one.

Didier

[Garystrat]

Hi Martin

Around that price bracket it may be worth looking at one of the newer models that records onto an SD card, as they tend to be cheaper.

Some of the larger electrical retailers have models by Sony, Panasonic and JVC on sale prices, which should just drop in your price bracket on a non-HD model, Hd tends to start nearer the £200.00 mark.

Regards

Gary

[Jay Bass]

Hi Martin
i use a zoom Q3 as Didier has mentioned the audio is good The video is average
zoom is a part of the samson family so it has 2 studio quality mics built in
you can also adjust the audio recording levels, it has a built in usb lead to download straight to you tube
if you wish. uses a standard sd card usualy included with the zoom software on it. and takes 2x AA batteries


i found the best deal was on Amazon i paid less than £99 inc delivery
The built in limiter does sometimes clip very early if the song starts quite loudly
but you get used to it the more you use it
if you look on you tube for THE TWYLIGHT SHADOWS most of the videos have been recorded
by my wife just pointing the zoom q3 at the stage ,you can hear the sound change as you move nearer the speakers etc
its a great bit of kit to record rehearsals ,and watch the playbacks to improve the performance etc.

regards
Jay

[RayL]

Martin,

Some editing is usually required between shooting a gig with a video camera and uploading it to Youtube. To begin with, it is good to 'top and tail' your clip with a fade-in and a face-out from black. If you are including more than one number, you would probably wish to trim the gap or gaps between numbers to give a smooth performance.

In the DVD of Pipeline 2011 when your band played as the Instro-Mentals, you will notice how all the bands seem to be able to slide from one number to the next in a matter of seconds, with none of the pauses, tuning checks, even guitar swaps, that all take up time in a real gig. This illusion does not happen by accident! Alan Taylor and I often spend as long 'invisbly' shortening the gaps between numbers as we do editing the number itself. For a 1-hour set we have often taken out as much as 10 mins of inter-tune gaps. The video would not flow so well if we left it as 'real time'.

As Didier says, if you only use the camera mic, you will never get very good sound. Also, if you only have one camera you will be restricted either to a continuous wide shot of the whole band, or a 'wobbley-cam' video if you ask someone to hand-hold the camera and zoom in and out. And what if someone makes a mistake in a live performance?

So what is the alternative? One answer is to abandon the idea of recording a live show and instead make a music video the way that music videos are usually made. Start by pre-recording your track. That way you can make sure the sound will be really good. Then play back the track to the band and record a wide shot showing everyone in the band playing (this is the master recording). Now record the necessary closeups and cut-aways. If you are not sure at any stage who was doing what, then you can check by looking at the master. Since you do not have to actually play your instruments (because you are miming to the track) you can make sure that all your movements and your smiles, etc, are perfect. Also, you can clear the playing area of a lot of the clutter that you would have to use for playing live.

Having said all that, what camera to get? The first thing to say is that your camera will need a tripod to get steady shots, so factor in that cost. HD is normal these days, as is recording on to an SD card. If you pre-record your track, you won't need to worry about an external mic input. Here's an example of the sort of camera that I'm suggesting
http://www.maplin.co.uk/1080p-hd-camcor ... oom-503266
I can't recomend it from personal experience because I've never used one, but it has the sort of features that you will need and the Maplin chain is country-wide, so you should be able to look at one and maybe even try before you buy.

Ray

[Didier]

Here is an example of home video made with a Zoom Q3HD by Christian, a member of our French forum who has been doing a lot of work on VST sound processing, and is sharing it with other members :



Didier

[ecca]

Hi Mart.
Cameras are much of a muchness these days, they're all excellent.
The more you spend the better they get.
I concur with the above messages, the on-camera microphone isn't essential but a 3.5mm input socket for an external mic is handy.
Usually the camera is in the right place for a shot but wrong place for sound, you can end up with endless chatter from punters, some
of which can be surprisingly slanderous.
Perhaps also consider a separate audio recorder, I use a Zoom H4.
One of the gizmos that I also have is a radio mic for the camera, no wires to worry about.
I will usually pre-record the audio track and play along, you can then get away with one camera for multiple angles by repeating the tune
with the camera in a different position.
Get the heaviest tripod you can, they're more stable, car boots are best source.
Best of luck, can't wait to see the results, feel free to ask questions.
Ecca

[cmwatts67]

This is a little bit more money. But the results are quite impressive from what I can see, I was thinking of purchasing one myself.

Olympus LS-20M PCM Digital Recorder with HD Movie -

Specifications - http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/2581_ ... _24526.htm

Purchase link - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-LS-20M- ... 74&sr=8-12

Video sample - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSejcfXz ... ata_player

Video review - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJeIsnAL ... ata_player

Regards
Chris

[Didier]

the on-camera microphone isn't essential but a 3.5mm input socket for an external mic is handy.
Usually the camera is in the right place for a shot but wrong place for sound, you can end up with endless chatter from punters, some
of which can be surprisingly slanderous.
Perhaps also consider a separate audio recorder, I use a Zoom H4.

I have been using a Zoom H2 recorder with external T.Bone EM-9600 microphones alongside a cheap SD camcorder :



But later synchronisation of audio and video was a complicate job, I now use an HD Canon HF100 camcorder (bought second hand for around £200) which has a 3.5mm input socket for microphones, and I still use the T.Bone EM-9600.
Here is an example of the result (I also use an 1.33 ratio anamorphic lens to get a "CinemaScope" frame from the 16x9 original frame :

One of the gizmos that I also have is a radio mic for the camera, no wires to worry about.

Chatter is a problem, despite the highly directional microphones I use. I am considering getting radio transmitters for my microphones, so I can locate them far enough from chatter...

Didier

[Martin Page]

Thanks for all the replies guys - definitely some food for thought there. I'll let you know how I get on...

Regards, Martin.