Neck micro tilt

[Tab]

Give it a rest, Ecca

[ecca]

Give it a rest, Ecca

Will I bugger.

[roger bayliss]

Is the Micro Tilt available as a retro fit for strats ? Any thoughts .

[cockroach]

You'd need a different neck I would think, as the screw holes and neck plate etc differ from the usual Strat setup- there's also the small grub screw gadget.

I have a Baldwin neck with the Burns gadget, but it's not a neck tilt thing, it's actually the geared truss rod adjustment.

I think I prefer the truss rod adjustment at the headstock..to adjust the rod from the other end means removing and replacing the neck to adjust the truss rod- which can take more than one dismantling each time!

Guitars look nice, but practicality is foremost, ands Leo Fender usually designed them to be easily adjusted or fixed...

I've never tried or used a tilt neck Fender, but have always used shims to raise the neck end in the pocket to adjust action- either thin slivers of wood or by placing thickish washers over the two rear most neck screws before assembly.

[JimN]

Burns guitars (particularly the Marvin) were constructed with a neck-tilt device from the mid-60s onward (still with four neck-fixing bolts).

Jim, interesting info. I've never heard about the neck-tilt feature on Marvins (which doesn't prove it doesn't exist). Can you elaborate on this please?
The original Marvin's were only produced in '64-65. When Baldwin took over in '65 the Marvin continued (with some changes) under the name 'Model 524 Hank Marvin Signature' til about 1970 IIRC. The descriptions I've seen on the Baldwin models doesn't mention any neck-tilt device either.

Erik

Eric, The only way I could give details from my own guitar would be to dismantle the neck from the body and take some photos. I'm not totally unwilling to do that, but the strings currently fitted are fairly new, and I don't want to waste them at present. There is another reason too, but let me offer a description instead.

The main component of the mechanism is a disc-shaped piece of steel, fitted into a recess in the back of the neck pocket. From the underside of that disc, a screw protrudes through the back of the neck pocket and can be accessed through a hole through to the rear of the guitar. There are thus six holes in the back of the neck pocket on an original Jim Burns-made Marvin.

I checked the 1979 edition of Paul Day's "The Burns Book", but found no mention of the system. But it's there on the guitar. The neck pocket, as you probably know already, also has four holes for the neck bolts, and another for the protruding pawl of the geared truss-rod adjuster. The truss-rod can be adjusted by removing the plastic cover-plate (which is purely decorative) and accessing the pawl with the special key. Another hole through the back of the neck-pocket accesses a screw in the steel disc, which raises or lowers that disc within its own circular recess, thus potentially pushing the neck away from the body at one end of the neck pocket - that is, tilting the neck forward, rather than letting it sit flat against the back of the neck pocket. Just like the Fender tilting mechanism really, but not as smartly finished, with its (hidden) industrial appearance (and not advertised!).

I got my guitar s/h in 1972, and only slowly worked out what the mechanism did. I'd already owned Fender and other solid guitars, so was used to using fibreboard shims at the treble end of the neck pocket. Once I worked out what the Burns "disc" did, I set it up to taste and left it for more than thirty years.

In 2003 or 2004, the Marvin was playing poorly. I had reset the truss-rod and re-strung, but I was getting various rattles and problems. I therefore took the guitar with me on holiday (by car) to Tuscany when I visited my great friend, the late Roberto Pistolesi. I asked him to consider doing a re-fret and/or a thorough set-up. He was the only person in the world I'd have willingly trusted to do a re-fret on my treasured 1965 Burns Marvin (with which he was already familiar). I was prepared to leave the guitar with him over the winter and collect it the next summer. This was because I was well aware how much his talents were in demand and how laid-back a lifestyle he led in the sunny Arno valley 'twixt Pisa and Florence - almost Californian. However, Roberto took a look at the frets, sighted the neck and decided to do the work (with me assisting in a very minor way) whilst I was there with my son.

Roberto replaced the pitted heavy-gauge zero fret with a new piece of fret wire (I still have the original piece in a film-can in the case) and also machined several replacement selector switch caps out of ivory plastic because the original on mine had broken into several pieces (also in the film-can). There's a separate tale to tell about those selector switch caps some day (isn't there, George?). When Roberto checked the frets, he saw that they had never been re-dressed and so therefore did not need to be replaced. Instead, he individually and painstakingly re-shaped all twenty-one of them, adjusting the truss-rod as he went to check level height, etc. Before re-stringing, he took the neck off the guitar and gave a low whistle of surprise when he saw the adjustment of the neck-tilt system. He said he'd seen many examples, but I was the only person he'd ever met who'd used it correctly. But Mgr Pistolesi was against its use: and there was no arguing with Roberto on practical matters pertaining to guitar construction, be assured of that. He re-adjusted the disc height to put it flat into its recess and then - expertly and with incredible precision*, he cut a thin wedge of hard maple (the same size as the whole neck pocket) and shaped it such that once fitted, it gave the guitar the correct neck angle. At my request, he signed that custom-made shim before fitting it. It's still in there and is another reason why I am reluctant to disturb the neck...

Maybe one day...

JN

[* Roberto was an incredibly able and precise draughtsman and engineer. I was at his home once when the little plastic nosepad on my glasses broke. Rather than go into Pisa or Florence to have an optician effect a repair, he found an off-cut of Perspex (Plexiglass) and machined a tiny block (the same size and shape as the broken part) on a lathe and a drill-press. It worked perfectly - even the thread he cut inside the hole drilled in it for re-attachment to the spectacles. That was Roberto all over.]

[ErikMAMS]

Eric, The only way I could give details from my own guitar would be to dismantle the neck from the body and take some photos. I'm not totally unwilling to do that, but the strings currently fitted are fairly new, and I don't want to waste them at present. There is another reason too, but let me offer a description instead........................

Jim, thanks for the detailed description, very interesting. As I said - this is new to me. I have an original '64 Marvin, and I've had the oppertunity to inspect 2 or 3 other originals, only the 4 screws and the gearbox access under the neck cover plate on those - so no neck tilt here.

If you ever have to remove the neck on your Marvin, please remember to shoot a pic

Anyoneelse here owning original Marvins with the neck tilt feature? - or if you haven't ever checked under the neck plate cover it would be interesting to hear what you find.

Erik

[Detailed Infinity]

Yeh, it's surprising what lies below. Mine came with the Allen key for cam adjustment. Never needed to use the tilt mechanism or understood the need for it. I believed that the truss rod did the job. Only on American Standard Strats as well. Wonder what prompted the addition?

Bri

[cockroach]

Today, whilst browsing in a music shop, I just noticed a new Mexican made Fender Telecaster Thinline which has the Fender micro-tilt neck...maybe they still do them for some Strats too? They make re-issues of 1970's models after all...

[Detailed Infinity]

Better piccies

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neck-Tilt-System-for-Fender-Mexican-and-USA-Guitars-/120962119908?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1c29e778e4

Bri

[cockroach]

I think really that the micro tilt device was/is a slightly over-engineered solution to a simple problem- which is getting the approach angle of the neck correct in relation to where it joins to the body.

It's less to do with the action and neck relief- that's what truss rods and adjustable bridges are there for- but you can have much frustration if the neck/body angle is too great- you find you need a bridge which needs to be either about an inch high or needs to be sunk below the top of the body....

Ultimately, shims of some sort seem to work best and there are no odd bits of metal in the neck pocket between the neck and body with consequent air space and room and potential for looseness, rattles, neck instability and consequent tuning issues...

(At least the solution in fitting shims is fairly quick and easy with a bolt on neck design...with the old archtops with glued neck joints, the only way of resetting a neck angle, was to literally break the joint , refit/adjust and re-glue...the old '50's/early '60's German Hofners and Hoyers, Framus etc were apparently made with animal based glues which conveniently gave up and came unstuck after about 30 years...under string tension, they could suddenly go 'BANG' - disaster!?... but you could then reset and reglue with decent modern wood adhesive! I did this successfully a few years ago on an old Hoyer..)