Are we allowed to post links to bootlegs of concerts?

[Iain Purdon]

No no, Donna, what's on YouTube is a matter for YouTube and copyright holders have been known to demand that material is taken down from it. Many of us have experienced that!

If you know for sure that something is a Shadows bootleg then it shouldn't be aided and abetted by this site. That's all I'm trying to say.

Iain

[Mark Burton]

A recording of The Shadows concert at Birmingham Town Hall, 2 June 1989 is currently in circulation - I only know this because of a posting on another forum which I visit, which provides a link to an audience recording.

I'm fairly new here and don't want to break any rules so I thought it wise to check before providing the link.

(It's likely one of the best known live Shadows bootlegs and you're probably all having a giggle at this newbie's expense - but hey ,i'm still learning!)

Martin

Thanks for the head's up Martin - googled it, found it and audio freely available to download

[Detailed Infinity]

MediaFire's a portal for cracked and illegal d/loads. I bought this Birmingham concert on VHS and you d/load it & tell the world about it. MediaFire merely tells you which dodgy site you can get stuff from. I'd delete your browsing history and temp internet files and do a scan for malware if I was you.


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[MartcasterJunior]

Illegal download sites are illegal download sites, regardless of what non-enforceable terms and conditions they have.

[Uncleboko]

Let me throw this into the fray - one well known artist in the USA considers that a performance belongs to the paying public, and if folks cares to record it from their seats and upload to a file sharing tracker, then so much the better. It brings his music to a much wider audience, potentially putting more bums on seats at gigs and generating more CD sales.

Oddly enough I have only ever seen one Shadows show on a file sharing site (Dime), although I daresay many exist. I'd be very interested to know where else I might find some.

[hbmartin]

Let me throw this into the fray - one well known artist in the USA considers that a performance belongs to the paying public, and if folks cares to record it from their seats and upload to a file sharing tracker, then so much the better. It brings his music to a much wider audience, potentially putting more bums on seats at gigs and generating more CD sales.

Oddly enough I have only ever seen one Shadows show on a file sharing site (Dime), although I daresay many exist. I'd be very interested to know where else I might find some.

Well that might be the context in which that particular artist regards his/her performance, but in general the purchase of a ticket to see a concert entitles the purchaser - or if you prefer "the paying public" - only to SEE the concert, not to record it for later viewing or distribution. Unless otherwise stated, the concert performance is protected by the law of copyright.

[Mark Burton]

The subject of bootlegs is always contentious.... If you take Clapton as an example, there are an absolute army of extremely high quality bootleg recordings in circulation amongst his fans, many of them made directly from the soundboard. These are usually offered on a trade basis - ie I'll swap you a one for another. As long as anyone is not making any commercial gain in this and it's for their own personal use - I see no issue.

Bri - Thanks for your comments, although I'm not aware of any VHS of the Birmingham Town Hall concert. I purchased the Liverpool Empire video from the same tour (as I was there in the audience that night and met with Hank & Bruce earlier that evening) - is that the one you mean? Also thanks for the PC advice - trust me, I have that well and truly covered

[ash]

I understand that we should not post links to unreleased performances on this board and sadly believe that this policy should probably continue.
However... i think it is a great shame that some fabulous performances by the Shads (with and without Cliff) remain buried or unobtainable. I have been collecting unreleased music since i was about ten years old and there are some great tapes out there by all the 50s and 60s artists. The physical market for these is pretty minimal but i think what we're dealing with now are historical documents. I would happily buy official releases of the Paris and Denmark shows (which i've never seen or heard) with Jet and the BBC sessions for that matter but can anyone see that happening ? ok we might get the bbc sessions soon ish but blimey its been more than 50 years. The reputation of the band cannot be sullied at this late stage by archive releases and if anything, new fans could be attracted. I too have never seen any classic era shads on places like dime and hunger city which means the band are totally off the radar for music geeks - i bet a lot of neil young fans would appreciate the shads, neil being a big fan and his early buffalo springfield (and The Sultans) guitar work reflecting this influence. In fact fans of almost every 60s band might be interested given that there isnt a single band or guitar player from the beatles era on who weren't influenced or inspired by the shadows. Syd Barrett is Hank Marvin on acid etc....
I also can understand that the band aren't keen for this kind of thing to be made available but have they listened to any of these tapes recently? i think they might be pleasantly surprised. Despite Bruce's protestations about his abilities these guys were excellent musicians from very early on. There are torrent trackers for artists such as zappa and hendrix which while not officially sanctioned are left alone as long as commercially available music isnt shared which i think is a great policy. We should always buy official releases except for crappy greatest hits selections
Should we pretend these tapes don't exist ? Leave the newly discovered Oh Boy episode in a vault till there's no-one alive who gives a * ? Apparently yes.
I should point out that tapes by my own (rubbish) band circulate and i think they are terrible but you know what, i quite like the fact that someone from butthole montana can listen to my songs when 20 years ago i just wanted to be heard and there was no internet and getting a record deal was a soul destroying pursuit but the only avenue available to get a wider audience. The idea of making money from music these days is hilarious. The Shads can afford to have this type of thing going on and who knows maybe their increasingly shrinking fanbase can be given a boost and people reminded that uk music didnt start with the Fabs.
The same goes for Johnny Kidd and The Pirates - what a brilliant band.
mind you having said all that what gives me the right to think i should be able to hear these recordings ?
hmm. discuss.
sorry for rambling.
in closing i would like to tell a story. my neighbour is a computer geek and was recently at a conference in China. The panel asked him how companies could stop illegal torrents of shows such as true blood and game of thrones which is the most illegally downloaded show of all time. They were looking for him to talk about blocking mechanisms,watermarking,spyware etc. and he said why dont you just charge a dollar or two for people to download it from the official site the next day. Most (not all !) want to be legal and will happily pay and the companies would make millions instead of nothing. He said they were quite taken aback by his solution but let's face it, it's the simplest and most sensible solution all round.
Anyway i'm off to type Shadows radio luxembourg KonTiki and Paris Olympia 1961/1962 flac into my search engine and see if i have any luck this time.
ash

[Iain Purdon]

In a nutshell, we are about as entitled to promote the existence of unreleased material as the foreign press are to procure and publish topless pictures of the Duchess of Cambridge.

We all know stuff exists. As a moderator on this site, I believe we should not be using the open forum for discussing how to acquire it. Please use other means of communication if you wish to pursue activities that this site cannot endorse.

I'm totally happy about campaigning to make unreleased material available through the proper channels. But that would require the Shadows' management and copyright holders to give permission.

Can we leave it here please?

Iain