Floating trem or not?

[abstamaria]

To have bent the note a whole tone from a D note to an E note with his finger at the third fret of the second string would have broke his finger with the string gauges then in use.
He used his trem.

Thanks, Curmudgeon. One learns everyday. But ...

On Apache, the bends at the intro and outro don't seem to be from D to E. In fact, they don't even seem to be to a full D#, but just a smidgen below. The bent note is higher for the first bend at the intro, but varies each subsequent time; at the outro, at least one bend is to an even lower note. Our bass guitarist Anna dropped by for a sandwich lunch at my office, so we had a good time listening to those bends on the YouTube video that Donna very kindly pointed out. I have tin ears, but Anna seems to agree with me, as we did pluck out the notes on a guitar. I keep a Stratocaster at the office for emergencies like this.

What do you think? We're both new at this.

Andy

[ecca]

This is starting to remind me of the all too logical arguments that were put forward that said the Americans didn't really go to the moon.

[abstamaria]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with the floating trem conclusions, but was just wondering whether I should be pulling up the bar for the Apache intros and outros. With my 12-52s, I can bend to slightly below D#; a full D# takes some doing and an E will be impossible, for me, anyway. Which is why I asked - am I supposed to reach E?

[noelford]

Hmmm... just tried this on my Burns Apache, strung 13-56. The B is a 17 and I found bending up from D to E no problem, no tremelo assistance needed. Mind you, my fingers have had well over fifty years of exercising!

As for floating trems, each to his own but my personal point of view is that I think you lose a lot of versatility if you have 'em flat to the board.

[abstamaria]

Whoa, Noel. Must be a steady diet of milk and eggs, too, as Hank surmised, trying to bend those heavy strings on their first Strat.

Andy

[donna plasky]

Hi, everybody. Maybe I shouldn't have said "from a D to an E" in Apache because I said that based on sheet music I have in a book. It wasn't until recently that I learned -- from this Forum -- that sheet music is not an accurate representation of what the Shadows are playing. I realise now that on a piano, you'd play "D - E - D" but on Strat, I don't know.

I originally tried bending the string on my little 9-gauge strings, and it sounded OK, considering how bad the rest of my song sounded, ha ha. But when I had the guitar fitted with 10-gauge strings, I realised it might be wise to attach the trem arm and give it a try, rather than bending strings. I can only imagine what 13-gauge strings would be like.

Kind regards,
Donna

[noelford]

It's really just practice, Donna. Although all my trems are set up 'floating', I have never used the trem to assist bending. It may seem hard work at first but it soon becomes easy as you develop the technique and finger strength.

[ecca]

Screw your trem arm Donna and give it a yank.
That's what it's for.

[Uncle Fiesta]

Yep, the bends on the intro and outro of Apache are definitely string pulls not trem. I use 12-52 and I can do them!

Back to the subject, I've never had a trem flat to the body and never will 'Orrible.

[abstamaria]

Hello, Donna. My ears tell me the bends in the intro and outro of Apache only go up to below a D sharp and are different each time. Listen to the original 1960 recording and then pluck a D# right after each bend, and you might conclude it isn't quite that note. Or at least I think so.

You probably already do this, but you can use two fingers for difficult bends until you get as experienced and strong as Noel. As I said, I use 12s and can only get to D#, so I hope that's enough for "Apache."

As pointed out also, depending on the springs used, a bend on a guitar with a floating trem may initially simply take up the "slack" on the trem before the note rises, so you may have to push more. Or rely on pulling up the trem arm. I wonder what Hank did in 1960?

Off topic, I think the closest covers I've heard of "Apache" are the those on the TVS videos. They (the Shadows Perth site) also have an interesting sound file comparing Hank's sound and technique on "Apache" through the yearrs from 1960 to three years ago. They discuss trem arm use, too. Very interesting and constructive.

Best to all,

Andy