Burns Era and Lineup Question

[donna plasky]

Hello. I was wondering if I could ask a question of the experts/historians in the Forum. I still have a lot to learn about The Shadows and there is something I'd like to understand better. I tend to think of the Shadows in segments according to who was in the lineup, rather than the date on the calendar, so that is where I've gotten confused on something.

I was wondering if the Hank/Bruce/BrianB/JohnR lineup is exclusively the only Shadows lineup to use the Burns guitars, not counting the reunion concerts in more recent years.

To complicate things, I realise that JohnR sometimes played his Fender bass while Hank and Bruce played Burns guitars. But like I said, while I am still putting all the pieces together, I tend to think of the band in terms of the lineup, with emphasis on the bass player because of the personnel changes over the years.

One other question, if that's all right. Would you say that the white Burns guitars were used so much more than the greenburst ones because of the compatible colour scheme with John's Fender bass? When I first became a fan, I didn't notice that John's white bass wasn't necessarily a Burns. I know now that he had a Fender and a Burns. Now it is really obvious to me which is which, but the white Fender was a terrific match, visually.

Thank you very much in advance for any information. I appreciate it.

Kind regards,
Donna

[JimN]

With a couple of wholly exceptional... er... exceptions, the only line-ups to use original Burns guitars were the classic 1964-1968 Marvin / Welch / Bennett / Rostill configuration and the 1969 Marvin / Bennett / Rostill / Hawkshaw combination.

Exceptions included:

(i) Hank using a Burns 12-string guitar (maybe more than one) on TV in late 1963 to promote Don't Talk To Him and in the film "Wonderful Life" for On The Beach whilst the rest of the group were still using Fenders and/or a Gibson acoustic - this during the Locking / Rostill cross-over period);

(ii) a temporary Marvin / Welch / Bennett / Locking short season appearance in cabaret at the Talk Of The Town in London, and doing a one-off on TV on a Mike and Bernie Winters Show, both in the late sixties (probably 1968) and

(iii) the televised December 1969 edition of TOTP (co-produced with German TV) which featured Marvin / Welch / Rostill / Meehan (and with John using his Jazz Bass (see below).

For all the 1969 "Hawkshaw" Shadows appearances of which I am aware (a tour of Japan and a tour of the UK), as well as the TOTP show, John Rostill played his white Jazz Bass, but always used the Shadows Bass before that (subject to his having used the white Precision Bass for a short while after joining in 1963 - especially during the filming of "Wonderful Life").

That's a bit jumbled, isn't it?

It's the result of trying to list Burns use and line-up information together, rather than as two separate timelines.

JN

[Iain Purdon]

Everything Jim says is spot on, Donna.

The simple answer is that the Burns line-up is the Rostill line-up and by and large that's what they were nearly always seen to use.

[Didier]

I saw the Shadows at the Paris Olympia in 1964, the lineup was Marvin, Welch, Bennett and Rostill. Only Burns guitars were used, which was a big surprise for me as I had never heard of these guitars before.
I was close enough of the stage to read "Burns London" on their guitar, so I then thought they had followed the "Buy British" slogan of this time !

Didier

[Paul Childs]

I don't know if it's coincidence but when they switched from Fender to Burns they didn't do so well in the charts for the rest of the 60s.

[MikeAB]

Well Flingel Bunt did more than ok, and whilst I always thought the Burns rather became a symbol of white tie and tails and cabaret, if only a heavier version of Blue Shadows with more free form lead had been the follow up they might have become regarded differently eg as bluesy guitars and chart success might have continued a little longer. Rhythm and Greens as an A side was the problem I've always thought - great playing but crazy to do a mickey take of the current trend when they did - especially after Flingel.

[iefje]

Not officially The Shadows, but rather The Shadows in disguise in my opinion, Marvin, Welch & Farrar. Hank and Bruce still used their Burns guitars, until those were stolen in 1971/1972. After that, they went back to the Fenders. Interestingly, for the second album "Second Opinion" and during the Spring tour of 1971, the line-up of the group was exactly the same as in 1974 during the sessions for the instrumental tracks for The Shadows' "Specs Appeal" album: Hank Marvin, Bruce Welch, John Farrar, Brian Bennett and Dave Richmond.

[StuartD]

Hi

After John joined Tom Jones in 1970, the Shadows did two separate weeks in cabaret at Batley, in April and Wythenshawe, Manchester. They also appeared with that line up- Hank, Brian, Alan and Paul at the NME Poll Winners Concert in May of that year. For the first week at Batley, Paul used John's Burns but it was so 'knackered' that he didn't use it after that. The Bass was not retained by John and belonged to the band.

Regards

Stuart

[iefje]

Hi

After John joined Tom Jones in 1970, the Shadows did two separate weeks in cabaret at Batley, in April and Wythenshawe, Manchester. They also appeared with that line up- Hank, Brian, Alan and Paul at the NME Poll Winners Concert in May of that year. For the first week at Batley, Paul used John's Burns but it was so 'knackered' that he didn't use it after that. The Bass was not retained by John and belonged to the band.

Regards

Stuart

Wasn't this also one of the first times or very first time The Shadows played Mason Williams' "Classical Gas"? This was about nine years before the group recorded the studio version for the "String Of Hits" album, so this early arrangement would have been more similar to Williams' original.
About the bass guitar, doesn't Hank still have John's Shadows bass? Also, does anyone know the setlist for these concerts? The album "Shades Of Rock" was just finished in the studio, but not yet released, so maybe they also played one or two of the tracks from that album?

[Iain Purdon]

I think John's bass passed first to John Farrar and then to Hank. Barry Gibson had it on display at Shadowmania at the time he was selling his replicas so he may know where it is now.