“Shadows Echoes and Amps From Then to Now”

[fenderplucker]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for your additional information. In that thread started by Phil Kelly a while ago he also included the comment that Dick Denney told Hank he thought that Apache was recorded using an AC15, though he seemed to change his mind when The Vox Book was written! I have not yet seen any evidence that The Shadows used the early single cabinet EL34 AC30's. It would seem very unlikely that they used this amplifier to record their first great hit and yet it was never seen with them.

Also, Wonderful Land could not have been recorded before the Meazzi Echomatic 2 appeared in early 1961 (and certainly not years before it was released!). I think that all such recollections have to be tested against whatever other factual evidence there is (after all it was a long time ago!)

Best Regards,

paul.

[fenderplucker]

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the info on the Copycat supporting Dave's sighting, I'll put it on the list when I do an update soon.

I had seen a couple of references on the sites to Hank using a MXR digital echo, though the only mention of MXR that I have seen by Hank was in a magazine article that referred to a MXR phaser/chorus and not a digital echo so I didn't know if it is a case of mistaken identity. However, your direct sighting seems to confirm its use. The only data I can find for that unit indicates that it had only one variable delay (with the usual modulation, feedback etc). Do you have any further information on the particular unit used?

I can't wait until Hank gets back to Perth and I can run some of this stuff past him again now that we are getting a better understanding of the picture!

Best Regards,

paul.

[dave robinson]

There's one of those SHADOW ECHO machines here. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=918

[StuartD]

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the info on the Copycat supporting Dave's sighting, I'll put it on the list when I do an update soon.

I had seen a couple of references on the sites to Hank using a MXR digital echo, though the only mention of MXR that I have seen by Hank was in a magazine article that referred to a MXR phaser/chorus and not a digital echo so I didn't know if it is a case of mistaken identity. However, your direct sighting seems to confirm its use. The only data I can find for that unit indicates that it had only one variable delay (with the usual modulation, feedback etc). Do you have any further information on the particular unit used?

I can't wait until Hank gets back to Perth and I can run some of this stuff past him again now that we are getting a better understanding of the picture!

Best Regards,

paul.

Hi Paul

I spoke to Hank after the show and he told me that the EC3 was too noisy and he had brought the MXR from his studio. He said the only drawback was that it had only a single repeat but that it was 'as quiet as a mouse'!!

Regards

Stuart

[fenderplucker]

Thanks Stuart, I only have a rather grainy photo of a MXR digital echo so I'll have to do a bit of searching to get a better one for the article.

Thanks Dave, a very timely ad!!

Best Regards,

Paul.

[roger bayliss]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for your additional information. In that thread started by Phil Kelly a while ago he also included the comment that Dick Denney told Hank he thought that Apache was recorded using an AC15, though he seemed to change his mind when The Vox Book was written! I have not yet seen any evidence that The Shadows used the early single cabinet EL34 AC30's. It would seem very unlikely that they used this amplifier to record their first great hit and yet it was never seen with them.

Also, Wonderful Land could not have been recorded before the Meazzi Echomatic 2 appeared in early 1961 (and certainly not years before it was released!). I think that all such recollections have to be tested against whatever other factual evidence there is (after all it was a long time ago!)

Best Regards,

paul.

Hi Paul

That clears it up for me then on the Wonderful Land issue as it appears that the book misqoutes Bruce Welch and where he is quoted as saying 'we had it in the can for years' it probably is more like ' in the can for about a year' and the recording date and the use of the Echomatic 2 seems to indicate it was probably in the can till sometime in 1962 when WL was released.

It still stands though that Bruce Welch very publicly at Shadowmania 2007 stated they had not used the AC15 only the AC30 and he was in fact referencing a thread on the old MSN site soundfiles section where some of us were debating the likely use of the AC15 on Apache particulary. We know they had the AC30 TV twin in Oct 1960 but is it not possible they were testing the prototypes for Dick Denny before that period ? The fact that the early AC30 and AC15 are broadly the same amplifier sound does not help us decide either ?

Heres a piece from the Vox site about the Shadows and the AC30 which some might view as incorrect but nevertheless someones recollection !
http://www.voxamps.com/uk/history/thevoxstory1/

Keep up the good work

[Geoff Alderton LH]

Hi Paul, I think the answer would be resounding YES PLEASE. Good luck if you decide to go ahead with the project. I, myself, would say its a 100% guaranteed project.
Regards Geoff.

[Spike]

Thanks everyone for your great contributions thus far.
Please keep them coming as more information comes to mind.


Spike

[fenderplucker]

Hi again Roger,

With regard to the amp used for Apache I don't think that we can dismiss any possibilities unless there is direct evidence to the contrary. However, it would seem strange to me if they did use an early single speaker AC30 or a later AC30/4 to record their first, and in many ways most famous, hit that there is so far not a single piece of hard evidence in the form of a photograph, film clip or written memoir that confirms it or its use in other appearances at around that time, and I think there are enough examples of other personal recollections that have been shown to be a bit dodgy for us to be just a little bit wary on this one too. On this one so far I have seen recollections that Hank said that he thought it (whatever it was) had a single speaker, Bruch thinks it was a twin speaker AC30/4 and Dick Denny has said both AC15 and AC30/4 at different times! So at this stage I think it might be a good example of where Ockham's razor might be applied: don't accept a more complicated explanation if a simpler one based on currently known fact fits the bill (or words to that effect!). Let's hope that something turns up that finally confirms what was used.

Best Regards,

Paul.

[rockinscott]

I thinks it may be possible, if remotely. When they was in the studio they didn't know what they was creating or that it was going to be their biggest hit, their sound was constantly evolving as was the amps with the later top boost etc, I doubt we will know, but fantastic read either way.

Scott