Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

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Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby Arpeggio » 19 Nov 2009, 16:36

OK. I'm starting a new thread because I nearly hijacked Alan's in error. The photograph on the sheet music for "Quatermasster's Stores" (showing Cliff strumming a mic'd up J200) probably is indeed from the "Apache" / "Quatermasster's Stores" session I'm inclined to believe. The main clue is the time on the studio clock - c.2.40pm. All of Cliff's sessions with the Shadows from December '59 onwards (apart from one on June 24th, 1960) were evening sessions. Plus, as Alan says - Cliff was in the studio with The Shadows and the J200 was there. So - I would now agree that the photograph does indeed date from June 17th, 1960. Jerry Lordan is quoted as saying that Cliff played the Chinese drum (commenting on his excellent time - keeping) throughout the entire duration of "Apache". Plus, the recording is SO clear that you can hear Bruce's mighty rhythm sound (using the J200) perfectly. So Cliff didn't play guitar on "Apache" - not that that's ever really been contested. However - "Apache" took up c. 45 minutes of the three - hour session - with the remainder of the time (quoted by Jerry Lordan - who was also present) being devoted to "Quatermasster's Stores".

In the photograph - Cliff does appear to be playing the J200 - which is clearly mic'd up. But notice Norrie Paramor actually standing in the studio talking to Hank and Bruce. I've been privvy to hear hours and hours of EMI session tapes which have never been released or bootlegged (I will say more in another post). Sometimes you can hear a lot of studio chat. So - the photograph was clearly taken when the Shadows were rehearsing or trying things out...ie not while the track was actually being recorded for a take. In all of the tapes that I've heard - Norrie's (or Malcolm Addy's) voice always booms out through the studio tannoy speakers - from the control booth / box. "Quatermasster's Stores" is also brilliantly recorded and the rhythm guitar part is definitely played on an electric.

Cliff may have played the J200 to try out a particualr sound or to help with balancing the instruments etc. Bruce clearly (as he has stated on many occasions) preferred the huge sound of the J200 as a rhythm guitar instrument for recording purposes on many tracks. So, on "Apache", Cliff played the drum and Bruce played Cliff's J200. The J200 clearly wasn't deployed on "Quatermasster's Stores." The arrangement was Norrie's and maybe he insisted on the electric rhythm guitar. As "Apache" was down to Jerry Lordan & the Shads - Norrie felt able to give them more scope -as he, as we all know, initially just thought of it as a 'B' - side. The other thing was (I'm sure) - particularly in 1960 - that I doubt Norrie would have let Cliff play guitar on a Shadows recording session - because he simply wasn't a good enough player. Added to all of this is the fact (independently and at separate times) that Hank, Bruce, Jet, Tony and Brian have all told me that - yes - Cliff was actually present at many Shadows' recording sessions in the early days but that - no - he most definitely never played guitar on any Shadows recordings.

Best wishes,

Rob B :D
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby AlanMcKillop » 19 Nov 2009, 16:47

Great stuff Rob, now we can get the cans out and listen for the additional acoustic guitar in the mix in the period before double tracking. :D I'm looking forward to this. :thumbup:
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby Arpeggio » 19 Nov 2009, 17:14

Don't worry Alan - all will be revealed - just as soon as I get time to write more.

Bests....Rob :D
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby Squier Ken » 19 Nov 2009, 17:35

Nice to see 'Quatermasster' being spelled 'correctly' for a change!!

Ken
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby Martin Page » 19 Nov 2009, 18:12

Squier Ken wrote:Nice to see 'Quatermasster' being spelled 'correctly' for a change!!

Ken

Yes, agreed - a pun on the Quatermass TV & film series I've always presumed.

Martin.
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby Derek Mowbray » 19 Nov 2009, 21:25

I have no way of proving this but I am sure one of the music papers of the time said that Cliff did play guitar on Quatermasmasster`s Stores,this would be to give the Shadows some additional publicity ,I`m sure there was a photo of Cliff playing an acoustic guitar .The music papers of the time were The New Musical Express,Disc or The Record Mirror
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby Arpeggio » 19 Nov 2009, 21:37

Thanks for that information. Maybe someone has copies of the relevant music papers from June / July / August 1960 and might be able to check this out? Of course - the whole thing could well have been a publicity stunt. I don't think that an acoustic can be heard on ".....Stores". Moreover - it's a very fast rhythm part which I don't think Cliff would have been able to play well enough. Only the Shadows and Cliff know for 100% certain - the rest of us will just have to weigh up all of the available 'facts' and make up our own minds.

Bests....Rob :D
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby AlanMcKillop » 19 Nov 2009, 22:11

.......... or the sheet music was available at the time and since Cliff was in the pic, assumptions were made?
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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby George Geddes » 19 Nov 2009, 22:16

Is it too naive to speculate on the existence of session logs in the EMI archives?

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Re: Did Cliff Play Guitar On "Apache" or "Quatermasster's Stores

Postby UlrichS » 19 Nov 2009, 23:39

Derek Mowbray wrote:I have no way of proving this but I am sure one of the music papers of the time said that Cliff did play guitar on Quatermasmasster`s Stores,this would be to give the Shadows some additional publicity ,I`m sure there was a photo of Cliff playing an acoustic guitar .The music papers of the time were The New Musical Express,Disc or The Record Mirror


Derek,

I found three articles from NME and MM referring to Cliff's contribution to the Apache/Quatermasster's Stores single, but none with a photo.

Ulrich
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