Dance With the Shadows

[cockroach]

I have seen photos of Burns Marvin early models with two adjacent blade switches- what was the setup with these- series/parallel, out of phase ?

[Fenderman]

Going slightly off topic, when did the Shads start using the AC30 amps as opposed to the AC15's they used previously?

[Bojan]

Going slightly off topic, when did the Shads start using the AC30 amps as opposed to the AC15's they used previously?

Yes, I too would like to know that. And when did they stop using the amps with the EF86 preamp channel?

[Iain Purdon]

Blue Shadows, Dakota and French Dressing are the three tracks recorded in Blackpool during their 1963 summer season. I'd expect those to have been done with the white Fenders, as they would have been the tour equipment.
There is photographic evidence of a Burns prototype at Abbey Road in Nov 1963 so it was definitely around. Hard to say which DWTS track featured what guitar though. As others have said, the top-boost is also a factor in the sound.

[dave robinson]

[. As others have said, the top-boost is also a factor in the sound.[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement and have proved it time after time to myself in my own studio during experiments with my own Vox TB versus AC30/4 with the Strat & Burns Marvin guitars. The use of echo diminished a hell of a lot too on the DWTS album - makes a big difference, those of you who have all the ingredients ought to try it.

[HAIRY]

To recap:
1. It is likely that a contributory factor in the sonic/tone difference between the first and the second LP could be in part due to the AC30 Top boost which was fitted to Hank's amp as early as first half of 1961, level of echo and of course rosewood starts.
2. However, the observation that The Shadows mention in radio programme the 'Burns project was underway by about May 1962' suggests it is within the bounds of possibilities that a very early Burns Marvin prototype was used on the second LP given that tracks such as The Rumble & South of The Border on Out of The Shadows were recorded in April & May of 1962.

It is curious that it is well documented when 34346 was first used in a studio but left to conjecture as to the introduction of the Burns Marvin: which was after all a bespoke guitar and not just-an-off-the-shelf-run-of-the-mill-stock-guitar!

[HAIRY]

PS: please read rosewood Strat.
PPS: sorry Bruce!

[HAIRY]

Sorry to refresh this thread if it has run its course but I thought the answers to Bojan's original question, though interesting, did not resolve the mystery. Surely there is more information / photos to come to light that will clarify, once and for all, the timing and stages in the development of the Marvin prototypes?

[Iain Purdon]

While not impossible I'm not confident there will be. At the time of development it is unlikely to have seemed of any historic importance. And photography was not the cheap, easy and ubiquitous habit it is now. Someone would need to have been very devoted to the project. Apart from that we're relying on the Shadow members recollections, whatever they are all these years on. But, yes, it would be very interesting if there is more info around

[Bojan]

So, I guess we will have to sort things based on our ears (if that is even a reliable parameter any more) . . .

What I have always thought (based on my ears) coincides with what Iain has said, in other words:

French Dressing, Blue Shadows, Dakota Strat and the rest is Burns . . . although I was unsure about Fandango, but if I had to choose, I think it is Burns . . .