NEW CD FROM HANK

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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby JimN » 13 Apr 2014, 15:32

petercreasey wrote:Oh come off it Jim, a cover is a performance or recording of music previously recorded by someone else, you can't call something a cover just because you don't like it and it's not a cover if you do. It seems that the description "cover" is used in a derogitory manner. Music is music and open to interpretation and arrangement and there can't be anything wrong with playing "other people's music" can there? If there is then there would be no proms, no Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, no brass bands oh and no Shadows version of" Sleepwalk"


The term "cover" never used to mean a recording of a song that someone else has recorded at some time or other. It meant only one thing: a record issued simply to compete with, and cash in on, a contemporary hit, or record by an established hitmaking artist whose records could be expected to be hits.

Just recording, say, a Beatles track on an LP (as has been done by Wes Montgomery, Johnny Smith and Barney Kessel) cannot credibly be described as "making a cover version".

The term was later corrupted so as to acquire the additional meaning - but essentially, it is one that is meaningless. It's a definition which would make Apache a cover version, when it was nothing of the kind. This seems to have come about as a result of an industry expectation that recording artistes will either write their own material, or will source it from a contracted writer with the predictable result that even any recording of a standard is regarded - mystifyingly - as a "cover" (though of what is never explained).

As it happens, I have nothing against the recording of established songs at all. As I said last time, I'd like to hear a Shadows or HBM version of Hit And Miss. If such a recording were released (it won't be), you wouldn't hear me complain - even if it were a slavish copy of John Barry's version. In fact, I wouldn't mind a cover version of anything else that (crucially) suits instrumental treatment. Diana Ross and Stevie Wonder doesn't cut it.

My contention is that when the average lifelong Shadows fan winces at a "Simply Shadows" track, it isn't ONLY because the song was a hit for someone else. It's because the song was a hit for someone else AND doesn't work as an instrumental, with the second characteristic being the more important by far.

Do I complain that My Resistance Is Low was a cover of Jim Dale's semi-hit? No. Do I demur at the Shadows doing a Ventures hit with Perfidia? Or Bill Justis with Raunchy? Of course not. But these are a far cry from most of the 1980s stuff.
Last edited by JimN on 13 Apr 2014, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby JimN » 13 Apr 2014, 15:32

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Last edited by JimN on 13 Apr 2014, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby Iain Purdon » 13 Apr 2014, 15:51

Going off the original point, I know, but I agree with Jim, the crucial thing is that the song should work as an instrumental. To me, that means that the melody is strong in its own right and the words are not crucial to the effect of the piece.

Better still, rearrange music that was written for instrumental performance in the first place. No shortage of material. They've been writing it for centuries. :)

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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby Uncleboko » 13 Apr 2014, 16:42

Aha.......I'm hoping that "Summertime" is a "cover" of the wonderful version by The Barons :roll: :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1omWm4W4vE
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby petercreasey » 13 Apr 2014, 17:04

JimN wrote:
petercreasey wrote:Oh come off it Jim, a cover is a performance or recording of music previously recorded by someone else, you can't call something a cover just because you don't like it and it's not a cover if you do. It seems that the description "cover" is used in a derogitory manner. Music is music and open to interpretation and arrangement and there can't be anything wrong with playing "other people's music" can there? If there is then there would be no proms, no Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, no brass bands oh and no Shadows version of" Sleepwalk"


The term "cover" never used to mean a recording of a song that someone else has recorded at some time or other. It meant only one thing: a record issued simply to compete with, and cash in on, a contemporary hit, or record by an established hitmaking artist whose records could be expected to be hits.

Just recording, say, a Beatles track on an LP (as has been done by Wes Montgomery, Johnny Smith and Barney Kessel) cannot credibly be described as "making a cover version".

The term was later corrupted so as to acquire the additional meaning - but essentially, it is one that is meaningless. It's a definition which would make Apache a cover version, when it was nothing of the kind. This seems to have come about as a result of an industry expectation that recording artistes will either write their own material, or will source it from a contracted writer with the predictable result that even any recording of a standard is regarded - mystifyingly - as a "cover" (though of what is never explained).

As it happens, I have nothing against the recording of established songs at all. As I said last time, I'd like to hear a Shadows or HBM version of Hit And Miss. If such a recording were released (it won't be), you wouldn't hear me complain - even if it were a slavish copy of John Barry's version. In fact, I wouldn't mind a cover version of anything else that (crucially) suits instrumental treatment. Diana Ross and Stevie Wonder doesn't cut it.

My contention is that when the average lifelong Shadows fan winces at a "Simply Shadows" track, it isn't ONLY because the song was a hit for someone else. It's because the song was a hit for someone else AND doesn't work as an instrumental, with the second characteristic being the more important by far.

Do I complain that My Resistance Is Low was a cover of Jim Dale's semi-hit? No. Do I demur at the Shadows doing a Ventures hit with Perfidia? Or Bill Justis with Raunchy? Of course not. But these are a far cry from most of the 1980s stuff.

Jim,
You will have your opinion, I will have mine, I am referring to the term "cover" as used earlier in this thread, and taking that meaning yes Apache is a "cover"
My point is that it would be unreasonable to expect HBM to issue an all original, own written material album and that we should be pleased that he is issuing a new album at all.
Take care
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby JimN » 13 Apr 2014, 17:23

Neither The Shadows nor Hank have ever, to the best of my memory offhand, issued an album which was all self-composed (Est 1958 comes close).

I don't expect an album of all originals. I don't even want it. What would be nice is an album full of music that works as instrumentals. Hope springs eternal...
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby Gary Allen » 13 Apr 2014, 21:05

Its just possible that some find the interpretation has declined and also his signature sound in recent years, Back in the 80s he had a great sound,The interpretations on shite songs were impeccable,I mean..you wouldnt want to be caught at traffic lights with the theme from eastenders up full volume in your car.but the sound was there,and perhaps on this occasion he was handed a list of songs with a summer theme from the record company. I like Hanks interpretations and his signature sound and Im looking forward to this, there maybe one or two tunes that wont be up full volume at the traffic lights,maybe half volume....regards Gary
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby Dance with Shadows » 13 Apr 2014, 23:47

Neither The Shadows nor Hank have ever, to the best of my memory offhand, issued an album which was all self-composed (Est 1958 comes close).

Jim you forgot Aladdin, Cinderella and arguably Babes in the Woods.
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby JimN » 14 Apr 2014, 01:07

Dance with Shadows wrote:Jim you forgot Aladdin, Cinderella and arguably Babes in the Woods.


I'm aware of those, but they aren't Shadows or HBM albums, predominantly filled with instrumentals.
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Re: NEW CD FROM HANK

Postby Dance with Shadows » 14 Apr 2014, 01:38

Jim

I am pretty much in agreement with you.

But you raised the example of Est 1958, where the majority of the tracks are vocals and Cliff has half the tracks. I was merely offering some examples in which the total LP was original material.

Second, I think it's more than covers of songs that have a melody. I can listen to Guitar Player because there is some attempt to offer an interpretation of other artists' work. I cannot listen to Guitar Man because it lacks any attempt to offer a Shadowisation even though some of the tracks have strong melodies.

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