Here is That Sound, does it still sound as you remember it ?

[abstamaria]

You have to have the talent AND the voice. And while you're at it, you got to do the Shadows Walk, too.

It's a cruel world.

Andy

PS: Seriously, Hank knows, as most performers do, that the audience want to hear what they heard on the hit records. Maybe he didn't appreciate that in 1961, but he certainly did for the recent tours, including the Final Tour. It's an obligation to the fans, he has said in interviews. That is why he plays the pieces the same way always and takes pains to use the right amp, echo, even the right string gauge for the piece. He knows that the audience expects to hear a live version of what first caught their attention. For many of us, that would the sound on that vinyl record. The question here was is the sound as you remember it? The answer has to be no.

[JimN]

Well if the Shads couldn't get 'that sound'in 1961 what chance have today's would be Hanks got? I appreciate that there are differences in echo machines amplifiers etc etc etc bùt under all that there is a basic sound that Hank has.

That's the whole point, though sometimes missed: 'That Sound' is the classic EMI recorded sound - the one it's easiest to be familiar with and try to emulate. Often, a player getting a good live sound, with which Hank might well have been more than happy, will be dissatisfied because it's not 'the sound on the record'.

[petercreasey]

Perhaps being a fan of the live performance and not studio recordings is the reason for our differences here. For me there is far more enjoyment to be had in concert than the studio. I look at the recording as a memory of a concert not the other way round.
Thank goodness we are all different

[negninegaw]

Great, 'chicken pickin' on' the low strings!
Lead guitar more creative than the studio version!

[Twang46]

Hank knows, as most performers do, that the audience want to hear what they heard on the hit records. Maybe he didn't appreciate that in 1961, but he certainly did for the recent tours, including the Final Tour. It's an obligation to the fans, he has said in interviews. That is why he plays the pieces the same way always and takes pains to use the right amp, echo, even the right string gauge for the piece. He knows that the audience expects to hear a live version of what first caught their attention. For many of us, that would the sound on that vinyl record. The question here was is the sound as you remember it? The answer has to be no.

Hi Andy
Have a look at Hank playing "The Savage" on the final tour with Cliff, on dvd or whatever.
Nothing much like the "original single" with the "lead" break being particularly disappointing.
In fact I don't think Hank has ever played the original version on stage even the "Young Ones" film version was the so called "Witch Doctor" lead break.

I've often wondered why Hank chose not to play the single release version when on tours etc.....

Dick.

[petercreasey]

Hank knows, as most performers do, that the audience want to hear what they heard on the hit records. Maybe he didn't appreciate that in 1961, but he certainly did for the recent tours, including the Final Tour. It's an obligation to the fans, he has said in interviews. That is why he plays the pieces the same way always and takes pains to use the right amp, echo, even the right string gauge for the piece. He knows that the audience expects to hear a live version of what first caught their attention. For many of us, that would the sound on that vinyl record. The question here was is the sound as you remember it? The answer has to be no.

Hi Andy
Have a look at Hank playing "The Savage" on the final tour with Cliff, on dvd or whatever.
Nothing much like the "original single" with the "lead" break being particularly disappointing.
In fact I don't think Hank has ever played the original version on stage even the "Young Ones" film version was the so called "Witch Doctor" lead break.

I've often wondered why Hank chose not to play the single release version when on tours etc..... :
Dick.

.........and Sleepwalk, Dance on, the Stranger, Kontiki, Foottapper, Riders in the Sky, Nivram, Guitar Tango, etc etc etc in fact I cant think of any that are performed exactly as the record ................... I'm pleased to say

[Twang46]

This always reminds me of a review in the local paper of a "Genesis" concert when the reviewer thought it was great because most of the concert "sounded just like listening to the cd"
I can do that at home thank you, why go out & pay (sometimes excessive) money to watch less & less of the original members of the band run through their "greatest hit's" back catalogue

Peter
Some of Hanks live variations do work very well but I'm still puzzled as to why he never attempted the "Savage" in it's original form on stage when it seems to be the most talked about/attempted/lessons & demo's posted all over & some might say more difficult to play than almost all his other work ?

Keep it live (preferably with a pint in my hand) for me

Dick.

[abstamaria]

Hi Andy
Have a look at Hank playing "The Savage" on the final tour with Cliff, on dvd or whatever.
Nothing much like the "original single" with the "lead" break being particularly disappointing.
In fact I don't think Hank has ever played the original version on stage even the "Young Ones" film version was the so called "Witch Doctor" lead break.

I've often wondered why Hank chose not to play the single release version when on tours etc.....

Dick.

Yes, Dick, I always wondered that, too. I would have loved to see Hank play that difficult "improv" part. He has a fixed stage version of certain pieces.

I wonder what would have happened if Hank went on the Final Tour using a Telecaster and playing with his thumb. Through overdriven Marshall's. You might be happy, Peter, but many probably won't. I would be sorely disappointed. But many in the Ventures camp in the US feel like you do.

Andy

[cockroach]

Andy

When I saw Roy Buchanan play live in the '70's, both the support group and the MC referred to, and announced him, as The Master of The TELECASTER...

He came on stage with a beer bottle in one hand, and a STRATOCASTER in the other...

Recordings can be bewitching and can be played over and over- but they represent just one moment in time, in an artist's lifetime...

I would think Leonardo Da Vinci might have got bored painting endless exact copies of Mona Lisa

[abstamaria]

Very true, John.

In his interview on the Final Tour DVD, Hank said he was always conscious of the fact that, while he's played "Apache" thousands of times, the fan in the audience would be hearing it for the first time live. So he has to ensure that he plays it as best he can and, while he didn't say so expressly, in the manner the fan expects.

I had an interesting conversation with our bass guitarist Anna over lunch on the topic of style and sound, what we are discussing in this thread now. Anna has a BS in Psychology (graduating cum laude) and also is an MD specializing in Developmental Pediatrics (very handy for bands whose average developmental age is fixed in the teens). She understood immediately and said that if an artist played a hit piece differently the correlation with the audience that fell in love with the piece would be lost. The relationship between what the fan fell in love with and what is being played on stage would not be there.

I remember an old interview with the Everly Brothers, who recounted that in a tour in the early 1960s they decided to change the arrangement of their favorite songs. They were almost booed off stage. "We learned very quickly after that," they said. There are several old groups visiting here, Chad & Jermy, ABBA, the Cascades ... They always lament "we want to sing new songs, but know the audience want the old ones the old way."

I am generalizing of course. I would love to hear Streisand play with her songs. The unique thing about the Shadows perhaps is that, for the large majority of their fans, they are fixed in time, like Bruges isolated from the sea. When their fans listen to them, they want to hear "that sound." And that is why that term was coined. You don't hear Ventures fans talk about "that sound." In contrast, this and the many forums we populate are dedicated to its pursuit.

Anna reminded me of a statement Simon Cowell made, regarding contestants trying to sing a great song made famous by a superb singer. He said you better not try to sing it in a way somewhat similar to the great hit; you will always pale in comparison. If you want to sing it, you have to sing it in a completely different way so that the audience will dissociate it from the hit and appreciate it for what it is. For all we think of Cowell, that makes sense. That is why Hank's new album - so different from the Shadows - is exciting to me. I will be listening to Hank not Hank of the Shadows.

I suppose also that we are all different, as pointed out correctly earlier. My interest, not being around when talent was being handed out, has been simply to try to sound as much as Hank did between 1960 and 1963. And to convince folks to watch me and my band try to do that. I know I won't succeed with a Telecaster!

Interesting conversation, this.

Best regards,

Andy