The Ventures

[cockroach]

Walt,

I have a DVD copy of the full show from 1984- as you say, Nokie really played 'em great- as he did in 1964 for Walk Don't Run '64, Slaughter on 10th Ave, Rap City, Diamond Head, Secret Agent Man and many others!!

Interesting to watch dear old Don's rhythm guitar technique and compare it to Bruce's style too!

[wstagner]

Always remember, Don refers to himself as a guitar "flogger"....not a lot of finesse involved. Unique tekneek, but appropriate and integral part of the Ventures sound.

[BobGreg]

I have to comment that this topic on "The Ventures"; so far resulted in 52 posts and close on 700 visitors to date. A pretty high score for a Shadows site I'd say.

There's no doubt that there is a significant difference to my mind betwen the two groups - but both having a significant longevity.

Although to a large extent The Shadows have been more "in the mind" and on recordings from the past because of their decision to break up on a number of occassions and then latterly having the benefit of Hank's periodic tours/records and finally the 2004 concerts plus the current re union.

Whereas the Ventures never stopped touring or recording, especially in Japan where they have a huge following still with sell out concerts.

Their style of instrumentals is also so different, apart of course from the numerous covers that both were "encouraged" to release by their record companies.

As you say Don was a "flogger" and Bruce having perhaps a little more subtlety, but then I feel the need to be a little cautious. Perhaps I tread on dangerous ground here to draw too many comparisons/differences!

Not withstanding the foregoing I still have avidly collected both groups on every CD that has been published since this concept became a reality after the vinyl period when I was a little more selective of The Venture's material after they went psychedelic!

Clearly the record companies have had a significant influence on what tracks have been covered, rather than staying with the earlier self penned tunes or ones from known people like Jerry Lordan they tended to want covers of already popular tunes, which dare I say in some instances have been thought by some to be a little bland at times!

[wstagner]

Yah, I think you and I are on thin ice already, but is ok by me.
Record companies, group managers, etc. do what they do. I've generally prefered the self-penned toons from either group. In the Ventures case their Ginza Lights was a major hit in Japan, won awards, had numerous covers, etc. Could barely find it Stateside. It was on one of their last USA LP called Go With The Ventures. That LP had 5-6 self-penned toons.

Shads had a number of what I think are self-penned gems?? Saturday Western, Return To The Alamo, Geronimo quickly come to mind. Although Geronimo was played 2004 tour, we fortunately have groups such as The Reflections, that have revived the others. Then there's the vocal numbers that The Shads wrote, some of which our group plays as intrumentals and some of which I've heard played brilliantly in this forum.

If I never heard the Ventures play WDR, Telstar, H 5O again in my lifetime it would be ok by me.
The few gigs our groups plays we only do H5O because the audience might actually have heard it before from the TV show.

[abstamaria]

We were lucky to have iwith the Madeleine Cookie Company a rhythm guitarist from the era - Jimmy Colayco. Jimmy played in the very early 60s in a band called the Riots. In those days, one had to play the pieces exactly as the original (the audience expected it!), and the Riots did an excellent Ventures cover. Well, they were the foremost Ventures cover band in Manila then.

Jimmy knew the Ventures, who came to Manila during their heyday. Don taught Jimmy how to play rhythm Don Wilson style, and it is true that Don flogged that guitar. Very hard, strong strokes. Jimmy said they would break strings often.

Jimmy played with a Stratocaster and also a Jazzmaster during our shows and rehearsals. He showed us how to set the tone and volume controls and also the amp controls (we use a Twin Reverb), as Don taught him. He achieved this thumping, almost dead rhythm guitar sound that was so early Ventures! We had several Ventures and Shadows buffs during our first rehearsal with Jimmy, and they were so surprised by the sound. Jimmy said it was in the settings and of course also the stroke. When I talk to Jimmy, I will ask him what the settings were.

Here's Jimmy as a teenager back in probably 1961 or so with a young Don Wilson. In the other photo taken at this August's Madeleine Cookie Company show, Jimmy (a little bit older) is to the right with the Stratocaster (that's me on the Jazzmaster).

Andy

[wstagner]

Nice pix, Andy.

BTW, I'm recommending to Nokie Edwards that his next CD project be: Nokie plays Cliff & The Shadows.
Dunno that he'll actually consider doing it, but if anyone here would actually consider purchasing it (if he were to do it) might be helpful for me to advise him.

Assuming the CD would have 15-20 trax on it, what would you all like to hear him play? He (the Ventures) have previously done: Peace Pipe, Savage, Dance On, Wonderful Land, Do you Wanna Dance (V-Gold Live 2 2001 with Don Wilson doing vocal).

[BobGreg]

Walt,

I'd certainly be interested in a CD of Shadows music given the "Nokie" treatment - especially his fingerstyle technique with the thumb plectrum. I was simply mesmerised when I saw him playing at Lakeside in 2002 on his prototype Hitchhiker guitar without a tremolo unit!

[wstagner]

Please provide tracklist.

[BobGreg]

I will put my thinking cap on for that one - I'm sure others will want to add their contribution too!

[BobGreg]

Well here goes, head above parapet :

Selected from:

Atlantis
Blue Sky, Blue Sea, Blue me
Blue Star
Cavatina (Theme from Deerhunter)
Cosy
Dance On
Don't Cry for me Argentina
Driftin
FBI
Find me a Golden Street
Foot Tapper
Geronimo
Gonzales
It's a Man's World
It's been a Blue Day
Kon Tiki
Little Princess
Man of Mystery
Maroc 7
Midnight
Mustang
Nivram
Peace Pipe
Rodrigo's Guitar Concerto
Round and Round
Shadoogie
Shindig
Shorgun
Sleepwalk
Spring is nearly here
Tales of a Raggy Tramline
The Breeze and I
The Frightened City
The Rise and Fall of Flingel Bunt
The Rumble
The Savage
The Stranger
The Windjammer
Theme for Young Lovers
Theme from a Filleted Place
Wonderful Land

I'm sure that other suggestions will be forthcoming - please !

For starters - head now below parapet !!