Jazz

[cockroach]

Having read much material about the Shads and other British players, particularly guitarists, it seems that many were and/or are jazz fans (some trad, but mainly modern)

Hank, Jet, Tony, Brian all had jazz influences and/or played jazz at some time, (I think Bruce was the only pure rock'n'roll fan early on!) and as we know, Hank now plays a form of jazz as his main style these days.

People like the late Big Jim Sullivan, and the late Joe Moretti were also into jazz guitar playing. Although they were both revered rock and instrumental players among musicians, they both deferred to John McLaughlin as the master guitarist in the UK- and whilst he was and still is a master technician and musician, his music is not 'accessible' like contemporary material by Hank or Big Jim for example.

There has always seemed to me to be an implicit view that when a lot of these players played rock'n'roll and instrumental material that they were only doing this 'kid's stuff' for money, and would rather play 'serious' music like jazz to really express themselves.

In my opinion, you then had some legendary rock'n'roll/guitar instrumental players with individual distinct personal styles and sounds which so many people loved, who would rather play jazz guitar and sound like they were emulating established well known jazz players...and losing their individuality!

Guitar players are a funny lot!

Tin hat on!

[Uncleboko]

Interesting that many of the brilliant guitarists in 1960-63 played with either Lord Sutch, Nero & the Gladiators, Johnny Kidd or Neil Christian & the Crusaders! Not that many outside that small circle.

[MikeAB]

Jazz is another 'emporers new clothes' in my opinion i.e. it's 'cool' to say you like it. With Hank as a notable exception I always think it's for players, not for listeners.

[George Geddes]

jazz is Marmite music. You either love it or hate it...

I was never a fan of 'trad' back in the 60s, and I don't like anything too way out. One of my favourite guitarists is Martin Taylor - a superb musician irrespective of genre.

George

[Gary Allen]

After a long day this tune usually converts people,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHdU5sHigYQ

[cockroach]

Yes! Thanks Gary!

But then it was a big hit everywhere, from what was probably the highest selling jazz album to that time.

It has a strong melody, and was different and catchy too, being in 5/4..

[JimN]

Yes! Thanks Gary!
But then it was a big hit everywhere, from what was probably the highest selling jazz album to that time.
It has a strong melody, and was different and catchy too, being in 5/4..

Phew... they take that live performance at a fair lick!

Were they badly in need of a toilet break or something?

Or are they just doing their impression of the Ventures playing live?


[That's one for the quasi-teenagers of Romford.]

[Uncle Fiesta]

Marmite as far as I'm concerned. If you want me to disappear immediately, just play some jazz.

[cockroach]

JimN

I just played the clip above, plus another later live clip on youtube. Then I played the version from the original LP (my own CD reissue version however)

It's definitely quicker live than on the original recording- and not quite as effective IMHO, a little bit too 'nervous' - as Les Paul would have said...

I suspect the adrenalin of live performing, or they were so tired of being expected to play it all the time, they rushed it somewhat..like the Fabs used to do!

The Shads often seemed to race through their hits when playing live too- a few years ago, I played the Final Tour DVD to my mates in my then band- the drummer and bass player- both excellent players (and excellent on Shads stuff, which they love and can play like the records!), and with superb timing when they played- and they immediately commented on the tempos being quicker than the records.

[BrianD]

Of course "Jazz" encompasses so many different styles and I am sure we all have our individual preferences. As has been said on many occasions Hank now concentrates on Gypsy Jazz (Django) style playing. Personally I love that style but I know it is not to everyone's taste. I have been to see Martin Taylor on a number of occasions and love what he does, also enjoy Frank Vignola's playing. Some twelve years ago I had the pleasure of making a number of videos with Big Jim Sullivan, one of which featured him playing solo before he brought on his Trio. Here are a couple of links which illustrate his playing -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0x877_n0BU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE5elgE-Jyc

I remember Jim saying "jazz is playing a series of bum notes then repeating them so everyone thought that was what you intended to play in the first place"!!!!
By the way, the drummer in the second video is Malcolm Mortimer who also played in Gentle Giant many years back.

Brian